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#1
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Bob
I have been a steadfast "non-soaker" but decided (with a great deal of trepidation) to see what would happen to a 1911 Zeenut with black scrapbook paper attached to the back which I recently won on ebay. No one seemed to have any ideas how Zeenuts might fare, it seems all the soaking going on is mostly with T205s and T206s, but I decided to give it a shot. I know a lot depends on the type of glue used, but using an eye dropper, saucer of water and a blunt tweezers, I was able to completely remove the paper. I put the water on the paper and its edges and not on the rest of the card and then immediately dried it with paper towels inside a phone book with lots of heavy books on it to keep it falt. That's the good news. The back looks fine, the front has a small "halo" effect where the water was. It looks very minor but enough to make me swear off this method in the future. |
#2
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Jay
Can you post before and after scans if you have? |
#3
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About soaking cards
Posted By: David Vargha
The "halo effect" as you call it is from the constant dripping of the water and then letting it dry out. This is the same effect that you get at the bottom of a coffee mug as the little remaining liquid evaporates. There is no such ring when the cup is full. I don't know what the stock is on a Zeenut, but as long as it isn't a photographic plate (like a Fatima) then you should have immersed the card completely in distilled water (virtually no solids) to avoid the stains. |
#4
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About soaking cards
Posted By: dan mckee
The ENTIRE card should be soaked under tap water. Patted dry, then placed between a flat wash cloth and 2 heavy books to dry the rest of the way. There will be NO staining at all from the water. |
#5
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Jim Clarke
To add to Dan's comments. I would put the card face down so the water will soak thru the back of the card and not the front with the heavy books on top. |
#6
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Joann
Wow Bob - I'm really glad you posted that. I won one of those Zeenuts too - awesome looking front w/black scrapbook paper remnant on the back. I half thought about seeing if I could get it off somehow. Now I think I'll just keep the bit of black paper on the back. |
#7
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About soaking cards
Posted By: joe Brennan
Dan, Tap water? I disagree. Too many chemical tha would remain after the water evaporates. I would highly recommend distilled water. JMO though as I am a rookie. |
#8
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Jeff Mohler
The first time I soaked a card, I used tap water. I got the "halo" effect too. On Keith O'Leary's advice, I soaked it again in distilled water. The halo effect went away after the card was resoaked. Sad to say that the card (an E210) still graded an SGC 10. Way too many wrinkles that didn't come out with the soaking!! |
#9
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Halo is becuase you dropped and dried. Gotta soak the whole card. Then no halo. And it isn't too late, put him in the water. Distilled water is better, but not absolutely necessary, unless you have very hard water, or you have a water softener. If you have either of those, then definitely go for distilled water. Filtered water is better than straight from the tap. |
#10
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About soaking cards
Posted By: dan mckee
For the second time. SOAK THE ENTIRE CARD! There will be no halo or staining. I have been using tap water for 30 years so I know it works just fine. Baltimore tap water I use. I know different cities have different grades of city water so I can understand the distilled approach. I am just stating what works for me and I have thousands of cards to back me up. How many have you done? My point exactly. Face down or face up has never made a difference, the water dries out from both sides as the cloth is present on both sides. My T206 Plank has been soaked, 1933 Lajoie, 1910 Baltimore News. My only disaster, my 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. I soaked him too long and he floated into 2 pieces! The top and bottom came apart. I elmers glued it back together and it resides in an SGC holder. Dan. |
#11
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Brad
Q:Is this procedure considered altering? |
#12
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About soaking cards
Posted By: howard
Dan, what grade did SGC give the Mantle? |
#13
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Bob
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#14
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Blach
Show us the back. |
#15
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About soaking cards
Posted By: steve f
The last Q&A on this link is interesting; |
#16
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Bob
Card is drying after a complete bath. I'll post a scan tonight of the outcome. |
#17
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Brad
Sorry, wrong thread!~ |
#18
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Dan Bretta
The only cards I've ever soaked off are Scrapps and I used tap water to do it...granted our water is high quality here so distilled is probably best for most people. I use typing paper to dry the cards...changing the sheets every 5-10 minutes until there is little to no water left in the card then I let the card sit in the book between the typing paper over night. It has worked like a charm 5 times for me now. |
#19
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Bob
Halo is gone, thanks guys. Note on the back that the thick black paper is gone also, little bit of staining but it was there before. |
#20
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
I just have to say that makes me so uncomfortable in my gut. |
#21
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About soaking cards
Posted By: leon
You are absolutely correct. Your opinion, or mine, or anyone's won't change the matter. I, for one, don't care if cards have been soaked or not...but we've had this debate forever..... |
#22
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
I know Leon, and I apologize for even posting.... |
#23
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Rick McQuillan
I am real uncomfortable with this "soaking" thread. Why is this any different than coloring a border or trimming the edge? Do you disclose the soaking when you sell the cards? If you are keeping the cards in your own collection, then do what you want to do with your cards, but when the time comes to sell, the soaking should be disclosed. |
#24
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Matthew
The best way to soak cardboard or paper from the back of early Zeenuts is using distilled water. I use a foam plate (with edges) & let the entire card soak for a couple minutes. The paper will usually completely come off or at the most a small amt may have to be removed. Using some copy paper, press the card dry a few times, then leave it in a heavy book for a day or so. I personally see nothing wrong with it but I don't plan on selling them any time soon anyway. |
#25
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
The fact of the matter is that a lot of high grade T206 cards are that way because they were pasted into a scrapbook for the past 100 years and then carefully removed with a little help from a saucer of water. Indeed, my best work resides in an SGC 70 holder as part of my permament collection. It's a gorgeous card. |
#26
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
With enormous respect Paul, you don't get to cram down your facts of life down my throat, and then spend endless time bitching, moaning, and insinuating wrongdoing about trimmed t206's living in PSA8 holders. |
#27
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
I'm not sure how to respond to that post -- I certainly wasn't trying to come across as condescending. Since you and I are on opposite sides of this issue, I understand why my posts will always be read by you with some measure of skepticism or even disdain. But, I assure you, I thought your last post was quite politic -- I am comfortable living in our separate worlds and respecting the choices of the others. |
#28
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Well done, Bob. I was afraid you were going to leave the halo and forget about it. |
#29
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Rick and Daniel,, |
#30
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
Jim, |
#31
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Brian Weisner
I can only speak for T206's, but I know of at least 4000+ cards which have been found since the late 80's that are in Ex+ or better condition. Are some cards in holders trimmed or doctored, yes, but in my opionion a very small percentage. The fact is that there are plenty of T206's out there in 80/6 or better condition that have not be tampered with, but I can't speak to Caramels or other tough issues, because there distribution numbers compared to T206's is so small. |
#32
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
All apologies to those that would vomit over this, but I really do love this card: |
#33
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
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#34
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
[You guys should not stop here--lets see all you guys who stretch out the cards and trim them give detailed instructions to us all as well.] |
#35
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Brian, |
#36
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
Jim, |
#37
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#38
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
[I don't know if SGC/psa can tell whether a card has been soaked, but in most cases, I can, the texture is slightly different, as well as the rigidity(is that a word) of the card.] |
#39
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#40
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
However one views soaking, I think Paul is right that in most cases either it cannot be detected or grading services will not reject a card for that reason alone. If it warps the paper and turns the card into Malibu Beach, sure, but my understanding is that if done using certain techniques that won't happen. So how does one then detect it? Indeed I believe Dave Forman said as much in the conversation with Leon which Leon published here. |
#41
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Paul, |
#42
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
...but I do want to say something that I hope helps: |
#43
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Brian, |
#44
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Paul, |
#45
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Dan Bretta
I would be willing to bet that 99% of all Scrapps "cards" that are in slabs have been soaked at one time or another. |
#46
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
A card doctor... if my T206 is sickly, with paste and black scrapbook remains on its back, out of the way, I'll heal that sickly card. |
#47
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
While I highly respect Jim's purist views, at the same time I think one has to consider how widespread and generally accepted the practice of soaking is, and has been historically, as explained by Frank and others, before condemning those who practice or condone it. |
#48
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Steve M.
Peter, I disagree, unless, of course, you consider a consensus to equate with unanimity. If a consensus is more than 50% surely there is a consensus...soaking is acceptable. I submit it would be closer to 90% and there you really have a consensus. Count me in the 90%. |
#49
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Dan Bretta
I'm with Steve. Card soaking has and will always be acceptable by most card collectors. I don't understand what the big deal is with removing scrap book residue or glue if it is undetectable. I would be willing to bet that many of Jim's PSA 8 cards have been soaked and he could never tell. |
#50
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JK
"It is very simple. It is the difference between right and wrong." |
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