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#1
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
There was talk on the "1949 Leaf" thread about several cards from the 1947 Bond Bread set that might be considered "rookie cards" by some collectors. |
#2
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Wesley
The second card below talks about Jackie's baseball statistics only up to 1946. |
#3
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: David Vargha
(Seller changed link I was "hot-linked" to) |
#4
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
OK, so we know that the cards had to have been issued after Opening Day 1947 in order to have the photographs of Robinson with the Dodgers... |
#5
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Josh K.
could any of those pics have been taken during a spring training game rather than after the start of the season? |
#6
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: barrysloate
They were available in Brooklyn only and I believe the African American community was their target audience. As such, its limited distribution accounts for its scarcity. |
#7
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Julie
Dodgers' stuff added later--if Mayo could do it in 1895, I'm sure Bond Bread could so it in '46 ('47?) |
#8
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I don't think so Julie, because the one Robinson card that is shown in the 2005 "big book" shows him trotting home inside a VERY BIG stadium with an upper deck and bunting in the background. Montreal couldn't even get that big of a baseball following in the 21st century!! |
#9
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Barry: |
#10
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Wesley
Jackie Robinson |
#11
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: barrysloate
Excellent point Hal. It's quite possible that virtually no one in the country even knew they existed during their short run. Here's a good story for you: In the mid 1980's, I got a call from someone in Brooklyn who said his parents had died and when he went through their belongings he found a small stack of them in a box, about ten or so as I recall. I bought them all, but nearly every one of them was the same pose. I forget which but I know that a single card is much more common than all the others, so anyone who is familiar with the set could tell me which one it was. The only find of those I ever had but of course they came from Brooklyn (the seller happened to be white, but I really do think they were found mostly in the black neighborhoods). That gives you an idea of just how regionally they were distributed. |
#12
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: barrysloate
Hal, |
#13
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Barry - you are correct. My bad. |
#14
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
OK, I am confused. |
#15
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: barrysloate
It is a bit confusing. The ones pictured are relatively rare. The 48 card set is common and an enormous hoard of them was bought by Festberg- he was selling singles and complete sets for years. I don't know the distribution of that set, but would guess it was national. Jackie was a god in black neighborhoods, especially in Brooklyn, so I think the subset of Jackie Robonson cards was printed in relatively small numbers for a specific target audience. |
#16
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Well, if the "Homogenized" Bond Bread 48-card set was indeed distributed nationally... |
#17
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Another Talmudic inquiry it seems. Barry and I were joking about OCD before, but we may have a legitimate sufferer in our friend Hal, as exhibited by his perhaps quixotic quest for the "truth" about what is and what is not a "real" rookie card. Hal, I hope you figure all this out to your satisfaction, but I have the sense that in the end it may all be somewhat subjective and even arbitrary. |
#18
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Here is what the Talmud has revealed thus far: |
#19
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Here is one of the REPRINT cards that came with SQUARE corners, but you can see that someone has TRIED unsuccessfully to cut the corners to make them APPEAR rounded: |
#20
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
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#21
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Some of the text is printed for ease of reading. Many Hall of Famers in the set predating their "rookie" cards, apparently, not just Jackie. |
#22
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Peter: |
#23
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Kit Young has a Musial on his website with square corners. He has been around a long time, maybe you should ask him. |
#24
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Andy Baran
Hal, |
#25
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
What's he going to do, Peter -- admit that he is trying to sell a reprint? |
#26
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Thanks Andy! |
#27
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Has anyone checked the SGC population report? |
#28
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I can't get it to open. Haven't been able to for days. |
#29
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Anonymous
Has it been definitively proven that the homogenized bond bread cards found in the 1980's were reprints? I didn't think it had been and thought someone from this board was going to try to compare the square edge cards to the "originals" to see if they help see printing differences. |
#30
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I would do it Adam... but I don't have a square OR a round version. |
#31
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
I bet Dave Bushing would volunteer his expertise. EDITED TO ADD On a serious note, Hal, are any of the ones on Kit Young's website ones that did not "show up" in the 1980's? |
#32
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Hmmmm......... |
#33
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Peter: |
#34
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Here is more proof that these REPRINTS cannot get graded by REPUTABLE grading companies. This one is on EBAY now: |
#35
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Here is another SQUARE Robinson that sold recently: |
#36
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: davidcycleback
. |
#37
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Does ANYONE have a 1947 Homogenized Bread card that was graded by SGC? |
#38
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: warshawlaw
I do not think the square cornered cards are reprints. First, the selection of players is bizarre if they are reprints. Many of them are common duds. Second, looking at the cards under a magnifier, they show none of the signs of being second generation screens or prints from the originals, so if they are reprints, they are made with the original plates. Third, they feature the same stock as the originals. Fourth, they surfaced before reprinting was a problem and sold for relatively little, so where is the profit? |
#39
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Thanks Adam!! |
#40
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Adam's post is consistent with this "information" from the link I previously posted: |
#41
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Once again the Talmud will have to be consulted about the question of whether a card subsequently cut from an original sheet is the real McCoy. I seem to recall this issue arose in the context, sorry for the modern reference, of Tiger Woods rookie cards being cut from sheets a few years after they were printed. I don't remember the position of the grading companies exactly, but I think SGC graded them and PSA didn't. |
#42
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Anonymous
warshawlaw, |
#43
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I think we have a simple solution. |
#44
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: scott
Hi, |
#45
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Thanks!! |
#46
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Would GAI slab a card it believed to be cut from a sheet? Or is it still possible the cards were from a find of already cut cards? |
#47
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
OK ... back to my ORIGINAL question: |
#48
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: PASJD
Hal I dunno what dates them to 47 but it hardly seems surprising given the publicity and notoriety surrounding Robinson, and I believe it was known well in advance of the season that he would be playing for Brooklyn, that a manufacturer would have included him in a set even if he hadn't established himself. EDITED TO ADD: As for dating them, is there anyone in the set who retired after the 47 season so it is unlikely they would have been included if the set was really 48? |
#49
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Not that I can find. |
#50
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1947 Bond Bread questions
Posted By: dennis
what about the 1947 blue tint set as rookie cards of spahn,kiner,robinson? |
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