Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Probably late 1940s on the 3/4 Reds with Starburst. Cool pennant, but it typically sells for around $60-$65. The '63 Reds Picture Pennant is likely worth a bit less, given the staining throughout.

He would do pretty well to get $100 for the pair.

Thanks, Mark. I knew you'd come through! Your opinions pretty much mirror what I was thinking. If I had the picture pennant I'd probably try a little cleaning, because....you know....that's what I do.

edit: does the "starburst" ever have tassels?

[perezfan]

I can't recall ever seeing one with tassels. But slight chance I could be wrong. As soon as I definitively say that it never had tassels, somebody will post one here!

[ooo-ribay]

I see we blew right past 3 million views. There are cat videos that don’t have that many!

[ooo-ribay]

It's not easy keeping up with Bocca but all I can do is try. The pink one is new. The gold and orange underneath are presumably older. The felt is softer and the detail is better. The pink is a bit stiffer (not terrible) and the graphics are not as crisp. These tips are good...piled together, they took on a blunt look. There are others on orange felt that are very stiff and the graphics are like a black blob. I kind of like these pennants - they're a unique design with the cheering people, the bridge and the steamer ship. I think Bocca has like eight variations!

[bocca001]

When the graphics are bad, it makes me think of Mays. Left-handed Mays being worshiped by Lilliputians.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bocca001

When the graphics are bad, it makes me think of Mays. Left-handed Mays being worshiped by Lilliputians.

Mays?

[bocca001]

I was being 23% serious.

[ooo-ribay]

Question for Kyle or anyone else with an informed opinion: how many pennants could be produced from a single screen before the screen wore out? I’m aware multi colored pennants used separate screens for each color (right?) but my same question applies. Also, were there improvements in screens over the years that would allow them to last longer?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Question for Kyle or anyone else with an informed opinion: how many pennants could be produced from a single screen before the screen wore out? I’m aware multi colored pennants used separate screens for each color (right?) but my same question applies. Also, were there improvements in screens over the years that would allow them to last longer?

Great questions right there... I have often wondered the same!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great questions right there... I have often wondered the same!

“Enquiring Minds Want to Know”

[perezfan]

Timely, Rob....

I just heard yesterday, that Octo-Mom's kids are all grown up now.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Question for Kyle or anyone else with an informed opinion: how many pennants could be produced from a single screen before the screen wore out? I’m aware multi colored pennants used separate screens for each color (right?) but my same question applies. Also, were there improvements in screens over the years that would allow them to last longer?

They really shouldn't wear out. A well made screen/stencil can last forever. You can get hundreds of runs out of one, no problem.

I think they made and re-made stencils from time to time for a variety of reasons. The most common is to re-purpose the screen for another project. That's called "reclaiming the screen." I have to do this all the time because I only own a half dozen or so screens.

Even for a commercial screen printer, you have to do this occasionally. For example, you might print a few hundred Giants pennants in the spring on a few screens ... then, come summer, you might reclaim them and create a 49ers stencil on the same screens. 2-3 years later, when your supply of Giants pennants needs replenishing, you might reclaim them again and re-burn the original Giants stencils on them.

Yes, one pennant might require multiple screens--one for each color. You might also need multiple screen printing presses if you were trying to make a high volume of pennants in short order, e.g., league championship pennant.

Afterwards, you'd reclaim all these screens and use them for other projects.

Every screen can differ ever so slightly from its clones. Which may account for the differences seen in your Giants pennants, which I believe were made by ... ADFLAG?

Honestly, other variables make more sense. Another variable is the substrate used. Woven cloths are easier to print on than felt. Even with felt, the composition varied considerably throughout the 20th century, and generally, the smoother ones printed better than the more coarse ones.

Finally, time. Time is another variable. Simply put: some makers cared about quality more than others. Some of those Giants pennants look like they could have used a bit more ink. If they were in a hurry to crank out 1,000 pennants by lunch, they might have run the squeegee only 2-3 times (when 4-6 was needed). That's clearly what happened there because orange ink on black felt is a really tough combo for a screen printer.

In short, lots of variables come into play when screening pennants. The mesh count of the screens used. Temperature/humidity. Presence of lead in your ink.

It's a fun hobby for me ... but it can be frustrating as hell when things don't turn out like you expect.

[ooo-ribay]

Thanks, Kyle! For the past couple of days, I’ve come to this site hoping for an answer. I feel much more informed now!

I thought screens would wear out. I think I told you, I did some screen printing many years ago in HS shop class. I seem to remember the screens as being almost like nylon stockings and figured they would become degraded. Am I remembering wrong? It’s quite possible.

[Fballguy]

Those Giants variations are cool and all but have you found one of these?

[perezfan]

Wow, those are all great! Especially the white one with purple Batter. I love color variations like this.... awesome.

[bocca001]

Either Rob has learned some new skills, or ChatGPT is in the pennant business.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Wow, those are all great! Especially the white one with purple Batter. I love color variations like this.... awesome.

I think (hope) those are all FB Rob photoshopped.

Yay! Pennant origami! This is what I got for $10.10 shipping.

Anyway, Bocca alerted me to the bottom pennant. He said "good price, but we both have it." Well, mine didn't have tassels. Mine was a little moth eaten. But the biggie was that I thought the graphics were bigger!! No, the new pennant measures 11" at the spine end, rather than 11.75." I'm happy though and the outlined bat and button front are different. It's ink, not sharpie.

[bocca001]

Nice, Rob. Never even noticed the outlined bat. Turns out I have one with and one without the outline. Looks like they had preschoolers doing the outlines.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Those Giants variations are cool and all but have you found one of these?

Love the Lilliputians! Gives new meaning to "the little people in the cheap seats..."

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Those Giants variations are cool and all but have you found one of these?

Is this a step too far?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Nice, Rob. Never even noticed the outlined bat. Turns out I have one with and one without the outline. Looks like they had preschoolers doing the outlines.

I don’t think anyone was “doing the outlines” I think, as Kyle mentioned, there is a “clone screen” involved.

[Fballguy]

Few remember that the Giants briefly entertained the thought of a new name upon moving to San Francisco. This prototype pennant was unearthed in a Mastro auction a couple decades ago I believe...

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Few remember that the Giants briefly entertained the thought of a new name upon moving to San Francisco. This prototype pennant was unearthed in a Mastro auction a couple decades ago I believe...

That's bizarre!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Few remember that the Giants briefly entertained the thought of a new name upon moving to San Francisco. This prototype pennant was unearthed in a Mastro auction a couple decades ago I believe...

Enough!

Do not make me find someone who can make a LA Lambs or LA Ewes pennant.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thanks, Kyle! For the past couple of days, I’ve come to this site hoping for an answer. I feel much more informed now!

I thought screens would wear out. I think I told you, I did some screen printing many years ago in HS shop class. I seem to remember the screens as being almost like nylon stockings and figured they would become degraded. Am I remembering wrong? It’s quite possible.

In the old days, the screens actually were made from woven silk mesh. Hence the name, "silk screen." I've been told it was not as tough as the mesh used on contemporary screens, which are now made from a polyester material.

Older screens were also stretched on wooden frames. Over time, if exposed to too much water, the wood would warp. Today we use aluminum frames which don't have this problem.

I should clarify: screens absolutely can tear; even the contemporary ones. I have a half dozen or so in my garage with tape on them to prove this point. However, these tears were all caused by improper use/storage by myself (or the previous owners that gave them to me.)

I mean, all it takes is your son knocks his bike over into your screen and--you're looking for a roll of duct tape

But the stencil--which is made from a photo-sensitive chemical compound (emulsion) is very hardy and the constant squeegeeing of it during the printing process shouldn't really cause the detail of it to degrade in any noticeable way.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I should clarify: screens absolutely can tear; even the contemporary ones. I have a half dozen or so in my garage with tape on them to prove this point. However, these tears were all caused by improper use/storage by myself (or the previous owners that gave them to me.)

But the stencil--which is made from a photo-sensitive chemical compound (emulsion) is very hardy and the constant squeegeeing of it during the printing process shouldn't really cause the detail of it to degrade in any noticeable way.

Thanks, Kyle. I think I “get it.” But if the screen tears where the ink is going through, it’s done, right? (unless maybe you re-orient the stencil to put the tear under the emulsion area?) I have no idea of the cost of screens, either yesterday or today.

[Fballguy]

.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Enough!

Do not make me find someone who can make a LA Lambs or LA Ewes pennant.

I'd actually love it. I have a sense of humor.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Either Rob has learned some new skills, or ChatGPT is in the pennant business.

At least there was no brown "creation".

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thanks, Kyle. I think I “get it.” But if the screen tears where the ink is going through, it’s done, right? (unless maybe you re-orient the stencil to put the tear under the emulsion area?) I have no idea of the cost of screens, either yesterday or today.

Yeah, torn mesh is a problem pretty much anywhere. The problem is, if you don't cover it with tape, it'll just get bigger with time--like a crack on your windshield.