I believe Greg Morris Cards is Selling Reprints as Authentic

[STL1944]

I believe Greg Morris cards is selling 1991 reprints as 1947 Tip Top "hand cut" cards.

I contacted them with the information below (this is one example, but the same characteristics are on all 8 cards). The card on the left is a reprint, the card in the center is the Greg Morris card currently listed on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/317503599350).

I give them credit for responding. Their response to my email was: "Hi there, we took a look at the tip tops we had on hand and from our assessment they are legit. The stock for the reprints is much lighter than the batch we put up."

I disagree. Anyone other opinions out there? I realize this is an oddball set but I have been trying to put this set together for over 10 years.

Per site rules, my name is Jim McKinley

[Yoda]

Your forensics are impressive. Greg Morris is a big Ebay seller. This revelation may put them in hot water.

[Fred]

Jim,

For clarification - the reason the card offered by GMC is a reprint is because the "Tip Top" is blurred on the card. Is that correct? If so, that seems reasonable.

Is there a way to cleanly remove the "REPRINT 1991" from the card, or is it suspected that there was a run of reprints run from 1991 that didn't include the REPRINT 1991 disclaimer?

I wonder if the TPGs know this. I checked the 1947 TT sold on fleabay and the cards graded by the TPGs all have a clear Tip Top logo.

Interesting catch. Perhaps GMC will review this further.

[JollyElm]

A point of note for the OP. None of the backs of the cards pictured match each other - the text is different on all three.

Not sure if that's a factor for the overall point of the thread, but it may create a bit of confusion.

[Lucas00]

Absolutely a reprint. 1991 tip top reprints look like inkjet copies compared to the real things. Contrast is so bad you almost can't even see the logo on his hat.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Nevermind. I added something that OP already caught.

[Lucas00]

The name font is wrong as well. And it's too large.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

^^^
If you see my post above, the font aspect is exactly what I missed in his post as well. He caught it. Hilarious.

[Anothernicetry]

It seems many times that Reprints, Fakes and Copies of all kinds( from colognes to cards, jewelry, purses etc.) share something similar. Typically the original item will have very clean crisp fonts, logos and photos. Easy to read, thinner usually and straight lines from letter to letter. It looks like the high quality it should, like most originals.

Glad you caught it. That is a big fear of many new collectors, and to come from Greg Morris is even worse due to their status, volume and trust people put in them as legit. I am assuming they just didnt realize, but still.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

^^^
If you see my post above, the font aspect is exactly what I missed in his post as well. He caught it. Hilarious.

HAHA. That's what glazing over something does. Although the font may actually be the same it's hard to tell, but it's absolutely not the right size.

[STL1944]

When I have seen these before, the "1991 Reprint" is cut out of the card (the back right side of the card). That is what I believe happened on these cards. The L/R measurement of the card look too thin.

[Lucas00]

There is a gap on joes right shoulder the real cards and the reprints have that's missing on the GM card. The side that would say reprint. Probably not a coincidence.

[G1911]

It’s a reprint, 100%

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

A point of note for the OP. None of the backs of the cards pictured match each other - the text is different on all three.

Not sure if that's a factor for the overall point of the thread, but it may create a bit of confusion.

That does make it harder to compare the cards. I would think that if the card was trimmed to remove the Reprint text, it would be significantly narrower than the cards in the set usually are. Maybe the question to ask Greg Morris Cards is what is the width of the card.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

That does make it harder to compare the cards. I would think that if the card was trimmed to remove the Reprint text, it would be significantly narrower than the cards in the set usually are. Maybe the question to ask Greg Morris Cards is what is the width of the card.

My guess is that is why Greg has them listed as hand cut.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by bnorth

My guess is that is why Greg has them listed as hand cut.

I don't know anything about this set. Does hand-cut make sense if it's an original card from the set? How were they issued?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't know anything about this set. Does hand-cut make sense if it's an original card from the set? How were they issued?

Morris uses "hand cut" or "minimum size" in his listings to describe trimmed cards.

[bigfanNY]

Cards were issued in loaves of bread. One loaf one card. No hand cutting. Great set predates the 48 Gum cards. Before internet VERY difficult to piece together a set due to the fact cards were Regional. Red Sox only in Boston area.. Yankees only NY metro etc.

[rdwyer]

I've seen aged reprints just like these. What are the measurements? They should be 2-1/4” x 3". Reprints are trimmed on right side of cards.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

Morris uses "hand cut" or "minimum size" in his listings to describe trimmed cards.

So does everybody's favorite opinion seller...

[rhettyeakley]

The detail in the loaf of bread in back has always been the giveaway of the reprints.

GMC is selling reprints.

[nat]

Jim - did you send them the image in your original post? I see what they mean about the color of the cardstock, but the image that you posted here is very convincing.

[STL1944]

Originally Posted by nat

Jim - did you send them the image in your original post? I see what they mean about the color of the cardstock, but the image that you posted here is very convincing.

I sent them the two pictures I started this post with...

[Eric72]

It appears the auction was pulled. Kudos to Jim for pointing this out and to GMC for ending the listing.

[detroitbaseball]

I also think Jim (the OP) is correct. I agree with everything that he says about the differences between originals and reprints. I own a few originals of the Detroit Tigers from this set and have seen both originals and reprints. I always check the back of the card to see if "TIP-TOP" is legible on the side of the loaf of bread on the back of the card. As far as the backs are concerned, the sentence varies from card to card. Does anyone know if a certain player (George Kell for example) can be found with more than one type of sentence at the top on the back of the card?

[darkhorse9]

Greg Morris also has a real hard time identifying 1963 Post Cereal instead of 1963 Jello. There is a huge difference when it comes to short prints.
The difference is very obvious if you look for it. I've notified them on several posts. To their credit they do take them down when I brought it up, but who knows how many they sold with incorrect titles.

[jbsports33]

These are extremely tough to authenticate unless you have some in had that have already gone through the process. I have had many versions of these cards. Fantastic post about the differences, at one point PSA/SGC just did not want to grade any of these in the early days – still may not and and you just could not grade them. The set is very interesting and can be difficult to sell online if someone does not have a chance to see them in person. Aged reprints are out there as mentioned from some members. I gave up on these many years ago, just like the Fro-joy Babe Ruth cards – have had many real ones and reprints. Comes down to experience and if you have had them in person side by side. If some gave me these types of issues, I just would not sell them raw – too tough, Bond Bread is another set that comes to mind – good post, thanks for all the info! Jimmy

[Fred]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

These are extremely tough to authenticate unless you have some in had that have already gone through the process. I have had many versions of these cards. Fantastic post about the differences, at one point PSA/SGC just did not want to grade any of these in the early days – still may not and and you just could not grade them. The set is very interesting and can be difficult to sell online if someone does not have a chance to see them in person. Aged reprints are out there as mentioned from some members. I gave up on these many years ago, just like the Fro-joy Babe Ruth cards – have had many real ones and reprints. Comes down to experience and if you have had them in person side by side. If some gave me these types of issues, I just would not sell them raw – too tough, Bond Bread is another set that comes to mind – good post, thanks for all the info! Jimmy

Well, it's a good thing we have TPGs that know ALL this information, heaven forbid reprints and altered cards get encapsulated with numeric grades.
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[STL1944]

I got the following message from Greg Morris today:

“ Hi there, and thank you for following up and for providing the photos! We've had another team member take a look and re-evaluate the batch of Tip-Top cards, along with the images you've shared. It looks like your evaluation is spot on! We really appreciate you taking the time to help us with this and ensuring everything is in order. As a result, we've decided to end the batch of cards.”

Kudos to them for pulling them down.

Now, if they could only help me find the last three cards I need to complete the set (Ferris, Melton and Jorgensen)…

[irv]

Originally Posted by STL1944

I got the following message from Greg Morris today:

“ Hi there, and thank you for following up and for providing the photos! We've had another team member take a look and re-evaluate the batch of Tip-Top cards, along with the images you've shared. It looks like your evaluation is spot on! We really appreciate you taking the time to help us with this and ensuring everything is in order. As a result, we've decided to end the batch of cards.”

Kudos to them for pulling them down.

Now, if they could only help me find the last three cards I need to complete the set (Ferris, Melton and Jorgensen)…

Good!
I've dealt with Greg Morris for many years so their response, as I knew they wouldn't sell reprints/fakes like this willfully, is not surprising to read.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by STL1944

I got the following message from Greg Morris today:

“ Hi there, and thank you for following up and for providing the photos! We've had another team member take a look and re-evaluate the batch of Tip-Top cards, along with the images you've shared. It looks like your evaluation is spot on! We really appreciate you taking the time to help us with this and ensuring everything is in order. As a result, we've decided to end the batch of cards.”

Kudos to them for pulling them down.

Now, if they could only help me find the last three cards I need to complete the set (Ferris, Melton and Jorgensen)…

Glad to hear this! Doing the right thing isn't dead. Well done!

[luciobar1980]

Originally Posted by irv

Good!
I've dealt with Greg Morris for many years so their response, as I knew they wouldn't sell reprints/fakes like this willfully, is not surprising to read.

Exactly. Lots of people assume the worst...

[Mungo Hungo]

To my mind, the fact that he didn't intentionally sell reprints doesn't get him off the hook. Obviously, it would be beyond stupid to risk ruining his reputation for a few small sales. But while giving up the sales for a few cards wouldn't mean much to the bottom line, hiring more or better people probably would.

So is that going to happen? And if not--if he doesn't have the people needed to make sure that the cards he sells are authentic, how can anyone trust him going forward?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

To my mind, the fact that he didn't intentionally sell reprints doesn't get him off the hook. Obviously, it would be beyond stupid to risk ruining his reputation for a few small sales. But while giving up the sales for a few cards wouldn't mean much to the bottom line, hiring more or better people probably would.

So is that going to happen? And if not--if he doesn't have the people needed to make sure that the cards he sells are authentic, how can anyone trust him going forward?

Because nobody is perfect and when people who work for him make an honest mistake, he owns up to it and makes it right.

What more can anyone do, short of being perfect?

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

To my mind, the fact that he didn't intentionally sell reprints doesn't get him off the hook. Obviously, it would be beyond stupid to risk ruining his reputation for a few small sales. But while giving up the sales for a few cards wouldn't mean much to the bottom line, hiring more or better people probably would.

So is that going to happen? And if not--if he doesn't have the people needed to make sure that the cards he sells are authentic, how can anyone trust him going forward?

I trust him going forward.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

To my mind, the fact that he didn't intentionally sell reprints doesn't get him off the hook. Obviously, it would be beyond stupid to risk ruining his reputation for a few small sales. But while giving up the sales for a few cards wouldn't mean much to the bottom line, hiring more or better people probably would.

So is that going to happen? And if not--if he doesn't have the people needed to make sure that the cards he sells are authentic, how can anyone trust him going forward?

If the standard for trust is that a company can never make a mistake, and they have to only hire people who never make mistakes, then it's not possible to trust anybody. "Do they acknowledge mistakes and correct them" is a much more realistic standard.

[raulus]

Trust, but verify?

Plus maybe expect that people around here will help to keep everyone honest?

[Sleepless72]

I like Greg Morris Cards a lot and have bought several cards from them via eBay, and I think they generally try to get it right, although they did list a batch of cards as "1969 Nabisco Team Flakes" that were actually cut-outs from a Sports Illustrated poster guide. Some of you will no doubt remember those posters and recall that many use the same photos as the Team Flakes cards... but not all! Also, on the Team Flakes cards, the logos are airbrushed out, but they're visible on the SI posters. I sent GMC an email about it, but I never heard back, and at least a few of them appear to have been sold. (I counted eight.) It's possible that they may have contacted the buyers and offered to cancel the sale, or maybe they didn't see my message at all. Who knows for sure?

Here's one of the Not-Quite Team Flakes cards: https://ebay.us/m/6amlDy

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Sleepless72

I like Greg Morris Cards a lot and have bought several cards from him via eBay, and I think they generally try to get it right, although they did list a batch of cards as "1969 Nabisco Team Flakes" that were actually cut-outs from a Sports Illustrated poster guide. Some of you will no doubt remember those posters and recall that many use the same photos as the Team Flakes cards... but not all! Also, on the Team Flakes cards, the logos are airbrushed out, but they're visible on the SI posters. I sent GMC an email about it, but I never heard back, and at least a few of them appear to have been sold. (I counted eight.) It's possible that they may have contacted the buyers and offered to cancel the sale, or maybe they didn't see my message at all. Who knows for sure?

Here's one of the Not-Quite Team Flakes cards: https://ebay.us/m/6amlDy

Yep. I noticed a similar mis-categorization for the Mays. When I messaged them, they just told me that I was wrong. I sent a scan of a real Nabisco Team flakes card, but they just ignored me and let it run.

So I guess they don’t always listen to us!

[Leon]

I have seen the same kind of thing happen with at least 1 other not-named auction house. I pointed out a known fake Babe Ruth Candy wrapper and they let it run and sell. I quit trying to help them after that.

Originally Posted by raulus

Yep. I noticed a similar mis-categorization for the Mays. When I messaged them, they just told me that I was wrong. I sent a scan of a real Nabisco Team flakes card, but they just ignored me and let it run.

So I guess they don’t always listen to us!

[gregndodgers]

I don’t know if this was mentioned, but the font of the “G” in his last name does not match! Great job of catching this!