Kurt's Card Care

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

To be fair, Travis said he bought the card on eBay not PWCC.

It was sold on eBay by PWCC Vault, no? I suppose it's possible that they didn't disclose it on eBay the way they did in the auction, but I have a hard time giving Travis the benefit of the doubt when card altering and financial interests intersect.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

You are so full of shit. I said I was done responding to you, but I have to respond to your bullshit accusation. This is just a flat-out lie. At no point did PWCC ever inform me that it was trimmed, let alone that it was trimmed on any specific edge. They never said anything at all about the card. The card is in an "Authentic" holder, not an "Authentic Altered" holder, as you claim above. I bought it as a fixed-price listing on eBay. It had no details whatsoever written about the card in the description. All it said was "SGC Authentic" in the title. Seller was asking $X, I offered $Y, seller accepted. After it arrived, I thoroughly examined the card myself and provided an honest assessment of its condition. The edges show no evidence of trimming whatsoever. They are perfectly consistent with what you'd expect to see from a 52 Topps card (a set I know very well). The toning and chipping are perfectly consistent with a factory cut. The reason the card was not given a numeric grade is because the top edge slopes from left to right. It is just barely out of square (a very common factory miscut for 52 Topps). If this were any other card from that set besides the Mantle, it probably would have received a numeric grade. And I think there is a decent chance that it shows up again some day in a numeric holder.

All I know is that when I saw the card listed under your id, did not know at the time it was your id, I went to look up the history on it. I immediately found the listing that it tied to PWCC and saw the description.

I have never bought a card from PWCC's vault so I have no idea if they use descriptions or not. Gonna give ya that one. If you got it in a fixed price listing from the vault with no description, I would imagine if you were paying that much ya might want to do the same basic 2 minute search that I did and see the history but maybe you have so much cash coming out of your ass from all your gambling winnings that it did not matter.

Apologies for saying it was in an Authentic Altered holder as I was going on memory but that card was slabbed prior to SGC's recent change where they now ID the reason for the A.

Either way, you did an elaborate description on how you examined the card for days and see no reason it was in an authentic holder. It is a nice looking card that is clearly trimmed and also looks like the same person bathed the card in some secret sauce to minimize some toning or staining. So you either suck at seeing alterations or you conveniently looked the other way to cover up the fact that the card was described as being trimmed and decided to withhold that info from your potential buyer. I am not a data scientist so not sure how to calculate which one is more probable.

I see the card has been reholdered which suggests something: 1) You did try to get the card graded by breaking it out and resubmitting or 2) you simply wanted the card in a new holder, maybe in an effort to make the history less trackable. The fact you got it reholdered and it came back again as an A means it was rejected again for being altered or if you simply sent it in for a reholder because you accepted SGC's findings as it being altered. Either way you failed to disclose and instead participated in being misleading.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Is this the same card?

https://sales-history.pwccmarketplac...MONTHLY2077364

If so, here's the PWCC description:

That may be the same card, but that's not the listing I purchased it from. That sale is from 2019. I bought the card in July 2021 on eBay from a PWCC Vault. The listing I won said nothing at all about the card.

Regardless, whoever said that it was trimmed on the bottom edge in whatever listing this is from is an idiot. Here's a close-up pic of the bottom edge (not that it would matter here, as you guys probably have no idea what you're looking at anyhow, but this is NOT what a trimmed edge looks like).

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

That may be the same card, but that's not the listing I purchased it from. That sale is from 2019. I bought the card in July 2021 on eBay from a PWCC Vault. The listing I won said nothing at all about the card.

Regardless, whoever said that it was trimmed on the bottom edge in whatever listing this is from is an idiot. Here's a close-up pic of the bottom edge (not that it would matter here, as you guys probably have no idea what you're looking at anyhow, but this is NOT what a trimmed edge looks like).

That is 1/10th of the bottom edge. LOL. And I guess you did not read my post above. That image you are showing to corroborate your stance is as weak as most of your positions you take here. Yet you continue to do it. Tool of 54.

Not all trim jobs are done the Evan Mathis way with a paper cutter that leaves leaves a smooth edge but you knew that, right?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Your snake oil analogy still falls flat. Whether you approve of it or not, his card spray clearly works. Thus, it's not snake oil.



Jeremy Lee asked him how many cards he estimates have been submitted to the grading companies using his products. Kurt said based on the volume of products he ships and how many cards those products are capable of cleaning and 75-80% of those cards being sent in for grading that a conservative estimate would be ~30,000 cards per month are sent to the grading companies. I don't have access to his records, and I don't know what his growth rates are like, but he's been in business for several years now. One million cards in slabs is a fair estimate based on that data. 20k cards per month over 5 years would be 1.2 million cards. 30k cards per month over 5 years would be 1.8 million cards. 40k cards per month over 6 years would be 2.9 million cards. But even if it's just 15k cards per month over 5 years, that's still 900k cards.

Several years? Guess he was under the radar in the hobby lol

So one bottle is good for 1000 cards and he sold 30 bottles?

It's one of the more ridiculous claims I've ever heard

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

All I know is that when I saw the card listed under your id, did not know at the time it was your id, I went to look up the history on it. I immediately found the listing that it tied to PWCC and saw the description.

I have never bought a card from PWCC's vault so I have no idea if they use descriptions or not. Gonna give ya that one. If you got it in a fixed price listing from the vault with no description, I would imagine if you were paying that much ya might want to do the same basic 2 minute search that I did and see the history but maybe you have so much cash coming out of your ass from all your gambling winnings that it did not matter.

Apologies for saying it was in an Authentic Altered holder as I was going on memory but that card was slabbed prior to SGC's recent change where they now ID the reason for the A.

Either way, you did an elaborate description on how you examined the card for days and see no reason it was in an authentic holder. It is a nice looking card that is clearly trimmed and also looks like the same person bathed the card in some secret sauce to minimize some toning or staining. So you either suck at seeing alterations or you conveniently looked the other way to cover up the fact that the card was described as being trimmed and decided to withhold that info from your potential buyer. I am not a data scientist so not sure how to calculate which one is more probable.

I see the card has been reholdered which suggests something: 1) You did try to get the card graded by breaking it out and resubmitting or 2) you simply wanted the card in a new holder, maybe in an effort to make the history less trackable. The fact you got it reholdered and it came back again as an A means it was rejected again for being altered or if you simply sent it in for a reholder because you accepted SGC's findings as it being altered. Either way you failed to disclose and instead participated in being misleading.

Just keep talking out your ass "Chase Antley".

PWCC paid to have the card reholdered because the casing was tampered with. Someone tried to open it with a screwdriver and failed.

The guy I sold it to is a friend. He got on a plane and flew out to San Jose and bought the card in person. He's an extremely experienced collector who knows exactly what he's doing and what he's looking at. We sat down together and he looked it over very thoroughly with a jeweler's loupe. He looked at all the edges closely. As did I. I told him my best guess is that it is most likely a factory miscut as it is just barely out of square on the top edge. But all the edges look correct. He agreed. I told him the reason I didn't resubmit it for grading is because SGC changed how they identify "AUTHENTIC" cards. I believe the card would be worth less if it somehow came back in an "AUTHENTIC ALTERED" holder or an "AUTHENTIC TRIMMED" holder, despite it very clearly not being trimmed. I believe it is worth more in the "A" holder. And I believe it looks better in that holder as well. The buyer agreed.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Several years? Guess he was under the radar in the hobby lol

So one bottle is good for 1000 cards and he sold 30 bottles?

It's one of the more ridiculous claims I've ever heard

I've personally known about him since 2019, so ya, several years. And he has 5 full-time employees. You can often see them filling orders in the background of his videos. He sells a lot of product. I see no reason to question his claims.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

That is 1/10th of the bottom edge. LOL. And I guess you did not read my post above. That image you are showing to corroborate your stance is as weak as most of your positions you take here. Yet you continue to do it. Tool of 54.

Not all trim jobs are done the Evan Mathis way with a paper cutter that leaves leaves a smooth edge but you knew that, right?

You're an idiot. The images speak for themselves. I'm not here to educate you on how to identify a trimmed edge.

[Snowman]

By the way, "Chase Antley", why don't you post your real name here? Got something to hide?

[G1911]

Can Snowman make a post without an appeal to authority?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Just keep talking out your ass "Chase Antley".

PWCC paid to have the card reholdered because the casing was tampered with. Someone tried to open it with a screwdriver and failed.

The guy I sold it to is a friend. He got on a plane and flew out to San Jose and bought the card in person. He's an extremely experienced collector who knows exactly what he's doing and what he's looking at. We sat down together and he looked it over very thoroughly with a jeweler's loupe. He looked at all the edges closely. As did I. I told him my best guess is that it is most likely a factory miscut as it is just barely out of square on the top edge. But all the edges look correct. He agreed. I told him the reason I didn't resubmit it for grading is because SGC changed how they identify "AUTHENTIC" cards. I believe the card would be worth less if it somehow came back in an "AUTHENTIC ALTERED" holder or an "AUTHENTIC TRIMMED" holder, despite it very clearly not being trimmed. I believe it is worth more in the "A" holder. And I believe it looks better in that holder as well. The buyer agreed.

I keep talking out of my ass? Wow coming from you that is hilarious. I am glad you have an explanation for everything, always.

Pretty sure that when you had the card listed on ebay it was in the original holder but again I could be wrong. And it is convenient to rely on grading results when they suit you and the story you want to tell rather than be completely transparent and disclose.

SGC does not get it wrong on a card like that. If you were so sure it was a factory miscut then Authentic Miscut is just as good as Authentic. Not buying this at all.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

By the way, "Chase Antley", why don't you post your real name here? Got something to hide?

Happy to privately provide proof, Travis. At least I can prove things I type.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Happy to privately provide proof, Travis. At least I can prove things I type.

How many forms of ID do we need to provide to disagree with his agenda of fraud or observe when he has made something up? Think 3 is enough?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

How many forms of ID do we need to provide to disagree with his agenda of fraud or observe when he has made something up? Think 3 is enough?

If we need to verify any IDs I can help. The accused would need to send me a legal document like a check blank with their name on it. It also needs to be signed on the bottom right line so I can make sure your signature matches known examples. I can also pre verify anyone who wants to send me those documents.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If we need to verify any IDs I can help. The accused would need to send me a legal document like a check blank with their name on it. It also needs to be signed on the bottom right line so I can make sure your signature matches known examples. I can also pre verify anyone who wants to send me those documents.

Would it be helpful if I also provided you a copy of my social security card? I want to make sure my authorization is fast tracked and doesn’t get hung up.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

How many forms of ID do we need to provide to disagree with his agenda of fraud or observe when he has made something up? Think 3 is enough?

He does not appreciate the manner in which I hold his feet to the fire so 3 is not going to be enough. We are all on notice now...if any of us wants to challenge Travis's bullshit here we better be prepared to show ID, passport, utility bill, tax returns and banks statements to name just a few.

I am now living in So Cal...maybe Travis and I can get together one of these days at a show. I have posted here that I like the guy and I do. Maybe I am too hard on him but some of his posts are just so full of shit. The few times he has been on point I don't hesitate to support him.

Travis, wanna jump on a call? Lemme know if ya do.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

He does not appreciate the manner in which I hold his feet to the fire so 3 is not going to be enough. We are all on notice now...if any of us wants to challenge Travis's bullshit here we better be prepared to show ID, passport, utility bill, tax returns and banks statements to name just a few.

I am now living in So Cal...maybe Travis and I can get together one of these days at a show. I have posted here that I like the guy and I do. Maybe I am too hard on him but some of his posts are just so full of shit. The few times he has been on point I don't hesitate to support him.

Travis, wanna jump on a call? Lemme know if ya do.

There's something completely unlikable about a guy who just shamelessly lies over and over and over. Every single post (and that's not really an exaggeration) is either a humorously over-the-top brag, oft granting himself inhuman powers, or defending defrauding people and ripping them off. When he does have a fair point, he immediately ruins it by following up with a lie, fraud, or a stupid brag that should be embarrassing. It's entertaining, but it's pretty sad after awhile.


Let's see your proof, Snowman, for your posted claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity.

[Snowman]

So no comments about this alleged "trimmed" bottom edge after I posted pics of it showing that is very clearly has not been trimmed? No? That's what I thought... Crickets.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

So no comments about this alleged "trimmed" bottom edge after I posted pics of it showing that is very clearly has not been trimmed? No? That's what I thought... Crickets.

It honestly looks trimmed to me. The bottom edge looks nothing like the sides.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Snowman

So no comments about this alleged "trimmed" bottom edge after I posted pics of it showing that is very clearly has not been trimmed? No? That's what I thought... Crickets.

Have proof for your claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity? Or were you just completely lying again and made it up? Crickets

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

So no comments about this alleged "trimmed" bottom edge after I posted pics of it showing that is very clearly has not been trimmed? No? That's what I thought... Crickets.

I am going to turn the tables on you again since you always ignore hard questions. Today you posted: "my best guess is that it is most likely a factory miscut". In the eBay listing you never suggested that. In fact you said SGC was wrong and there was nothing wrong with the card, in your opinion. For a data scientist who is so precise that is far from it.

Also in the same post above you said you preferred it being in the Authentic holder rather than the Authentic Altered or Authentic Trimmed. If you are sure the card is not altered but is merely a factory miscut, why not get it slabbed as such?

Lastly, all the scans I have seen appears to show some toning on the borders and I have to wonder if the card was soaked or cleaned (not by you of course).

At the end of the day, I trust SGC's head graders' opinions over yours and I think you do too.

[Republicaninmass]

So full of crap the ID will read..

Eyes:brown

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It honestly looks trimmed to me. The bottom edge looks nothing like the sides.

LMFAO

Yeah, I'm done here. Have fun jerking each other off guys. Adios

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Snowman

By the way, "Chase Antley", why don't you post your real name here? Got something to hide?

So you just completely fucking lied and made things up yet again? The only jerk off is this lying piece of shit lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

I knew a guy who was never wrong. I called him Dad. But he never mocked, or cursed, or acted superior to, or ridiculed, anyone who disagreed with him.

[JollyElm]

Does this mean the spring thaw has come at last, and all things made of snow have finally melted away for good??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Keys to being an effective arguer.
1. Know what you're taking about.
2. Make your points clearly and consistently.
3. Don't insult someone who disagrees with you no matter how unfounded their disagreement is, always be respectful. Explain, respectfully, why they're wrong.
4. Acknowledge when someone has raised a reasonable difference of opinion, and above all else, admit when someone makes a valid counterpoint.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Keys to being an effective arguer.
1. Know what you're taking about.
2. Make your points clearly and consistently.
3. Don't insult someone who disagrees with you no matter how unfounded their disagreement is, always be respectful. Explain, respectfully, why they're wrong.
4. Acknowledge when someone has raised a reasonable difference of opinion, and above all else, admit when someone makes a valid counterpoint.

5. Do not make up a complete and absolute lie for which you can not make any case whatsoever and will be quickly caught in it.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Keys to being an effective arguer.
1. Know what you're taking about.
2. Make your points clearly and consistently.
3. Don't insult someone who disagrees with you no matter how unfounded their disagreement is, always be respectful. Explain, respectfully, why they're wrong.
4. Acknowledge when someone has raised a reasonable difference of opinion, and above all else, admit when someone makes a valid counterpoint.

This thread is just like all the rest he participates in when members have the interest to address his inconsistencies, fabrications, outlandish statements, etc etc. He gets nasty, dodges most of the rebuttals and then he vanishes, only to come back again and start again.

I now am curious what blowout's grounds were for his being banned. I am not calling for his being banned from here. I actually think he has a great deal to offer but he is never wrong. Very thin skinned and unable to be humble. If I am wrong, I want someone telling me so I can learn. Travis thinks he has all the answers to everything and he simply ends up making a fool of himself.

[G1911]

If undeniably and completely lying about people and fraud isn't enough to get one banned, I would think basically nothing short of violence is bannable lol

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

If undeniably and completely lying about people and fraud isn't enough to get one banned, I would think basically nothing short of violence is bannable lol

I would have to agree with you but he is entertaining. The fact that he holds himself out as an expert in every field and takes himself so seriously is well worth having him. Anyway, it sounds like he might have left but I doubt it. His ego is way too large to stay away for long.

And if he did leave, his exit turning it sexual was certainly a first since I have been here. I think a GFY would have sufficed, however.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I would have to agree with you but he is entertaining. The fact that he holds himself out as an expert in every field and takes himself so seriously is well worth having him. Anyway, it sounds like he might have left but I doubt it. His ego is way too large to stay away for long.

And if he did leave, his exit turning it sexual was certainly a first since I have been here. I think a GFY would have sufficed, however.

He'll be back quickly, he just has to exit this thread because he couldn't restrain himself from going into such complete lies that he cannot possibly even try to spin it anymore.

This dude is a lot of fun for his over the top stupidity, ego and complete disassociation from the truth even outside of his agenda, but he's also a more or less open fraudster who takes over every single thread about fraud to preach it and then turn it into a series of increasingly absurd lies and egotistical rants. It's beyond ridiculous by now. Is there any point where fraudsters get booted? How far is completely lying about specific people allowed to go?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

He'll be back quickly, he just has to exit this thread because he couldn't restrain himself from going into such complete lies that he cannot possibly even try to spin it anymore.

This dude is a lot of fun for his over the top stupidity, ego and complete disassociation from the truth even outside of his agenda, but he's also a more or less open fraudster who takes over every single thread about fraud to preach it and then turn it into a series of increasingly absurd lies and egotistical rants. It's beyond ridiculous by now. Is there any point where fraudsters get booted? How far is completely lying about specific people allowed to go?

He thinks he is edgy and controversial but your description is more fitting. Screaming for attention. He might not be back however. He might find another chat board to spend his time in any of the many areas in which he thinks he is an expert.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If it is indeed a factory miscut, are there examples of other cards (ideally on the same row of the sheet) that exhibit the very same characteristics? Finding such examples would definitely help bolster the theory.

[jchcollins]

Oy, as Yogi would say - this thread is deja vu all over again...

My point from other threads remarkably similar to this one is that unless you (or I, or a grading company, or the FBI / CIA) can TELL after the fact that a card was indeed cleaned / spiffed-up / altered - then this whole thing is a moot point, because any professional judgement of said card will render it NOT altered, and 99.44% of potential buyers for the card will never be the wiser.

As for the rest - condemning only the act of cleaning / using KCC products in abstentia, thinking that those who engage in this stuff are bad characters - all just becomes speculation and finger pointing that leads to nowhere. Sure, they are bad people. It's "shady". Oh, can you tell which card here was altered? Me neither.

I've played around with Kurt's spray before on my own worthless PC cards just because I was curious. Does it work to an extent? Yes. Is it a magic bullet? No.

Beyond that, I still enjoy chasing and collecting cards much more than I do being a full-time cleaning technician - so the whole thing is not for me. But until PSA and others can start pointing to his altered cards with repetitive accuracy (Please. They can't even spot trimming and minsize with any type of repetitive accuracy) - the practice is going to continue and become even more widespread.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Oy, as Yogi would say - this thread is deja vu all over again...

My point from other threads remarkably similar to this one is that unless you (or I, or a grading company, or the FBI / CIA) can TELL after the fact that a card was indeed cleaned / spiffed-up / altered - then this whole thing is a moot point, because any professional judgement of said card will render it NOT altered, and 99.44% of potential buyers for the card will never be the wiser.

As for the rest - condemning only the act of cleaning / using KCC products in abstentia, thinking that those who engage in this stuff are bad characters - all just becomes speculation and finger pointing that leads to nowhere. Sure, they are bad people. It's "shady". Oh, can you tell which card here was altered? Me neither.

I've played around with Kurt's spray before on my own worthless PC cards just because I was curious. Does it work to an extent? Yes. Is it a magic bullet? No.

Beyond that, I still enjoy chasing and collecting cards much more than I do being a full-time cleaning technician - so the whole thing is not for me. But until PSA and others can start pointing to his altered cards with repetitive accuracy (Please. They can't even spot trimming and minsize with any type of repetitive accuracy) - the practice is going to continue and become even more widespread.

Everyone's heard the "no harm, no foul" argument, just as you've heard the "there may be unknown long-term risks" argument. The line is drawn, and few people are going to switch sides on that point.

The more important question is where do you stand on disclosing what's been done to the card? That's the real heart of the argument. Should the Travises of the world be allowed to sell doctored cards without disclosing that they're doctored because, as you put it, 99.44% of potential buyers will never know the difference?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Everyone's heard the "no harm, no foul" argument, just as you've heard the "there may be unknown long-term risks" argument. The line is drawn, and few people are going to switch sides on that point.

The more important question is where do you stand on disclosing what's been done to the card? That's the real heart of the argument. Should the Travises of the world be allowed to sell doctored cards without disclosing that they're doctored because, as you put it, 99.44% of potential buyers will never know the difference?

I always disclose what I know on raw cards. I'm sure many don't.

Now, If I had a vintage 60's Topps card that I took and removed a crease from using Kurt's methods, and cleaned some wax up off the back via the same, and sent that in to SGC and it gets a 6 because they can't tell (this is what happens every day...) and I get that back - do I say anything other than this card is an SGC 6? I don't know that I would do that but not sure I can find fault with those who do.

The whole point of slabbing cards up to sell is to be able to let the grade speak for the card and not to necessarily go over every single detail about the physical card - which the large majority of ebay sellers anymore don't anyway.

Herein of course lies the conundrum. If / when creases start returning en masse on "fixed" cards that have been slabbed, there is of course going to be a problem. But how will it be addressed in reality? My guess is the grading companies will take the hit over and above "bad actors" in the hobby who will of course largely remain anonymous. Kurt's customers are becoming so widespread it's not as if there are going to be singular villains like a Gary Moser or PWCC to point to. IMO anyway.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Everyone's heard the "no harm, no foul" argument, just as you've heard the "there may be unknown long-term risks" argument. The line is drawn, and few people are going to switch sides on that point.

The more important question is where do you stand on disclosing what's been done to the card? That's the real heart of the argument. Should the Travises of the world be allowed to sell doctored cards without disclosing that they're doctored because, as you put it, 99.44% of potential buyers will never know the difference?

Everything should be disclosed. I would hate to buy a raw card that a seller sold to me, without disclosing the card has been cleaned, trimmed, touched up, or modified in any way, and I then send it in for authentication/grading, only to find out then it has been. Some collectors care, some don't. But it's the right thing to do.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I always disclose what I know on raw cards. I'm sure many don't.

Now, If I had a vintage 60's Topps card that I took and removed a crease from using Kurt's methods, and cleaned some wax up off the back via the same, and sent that in to SGC and it gets a 6 because they can't tell (this is what happens every day...) and I get that back - do I say anything other than this card is an SGC 6? I don't know that I would do that but not sure I can find fault with those who do.

The whole point of slabbing cards up to sell is to be able to let the grade speak for the card and not to necessarily go over every single detail about the physical card - which the large majority of ebay sellers anymore don't anyway.

Herein of course lies the conundrum. If / when creases start returning en masse on "fixed" cards that have been slabbed, there is of course going to be a problem. But how will it be addressed in reality? My guess is the grading companies will take the hit over and above "bad actors" in the hobby who will of course largely remain anonymous. Kurt's customers are becoming so widespread it's not as if there are going to be singular villains like a Gary Moser or PWCC to point to. IMO anyway.

Wow, what a mess. I now have a headache!

[G1911]

It takes 1-3 seconds with the average typing speed to disclose the truth of what has been done to a card. It is not a burden. It is very, very easy to simply be honest and tell the truth. If 99% of buyers don’t care or won’t notice (I strongly doubt that), then there is no harm to the price for the virtue of being honest. Of course, the only reason not to disclose is that it does hurt the price if the card is known to be worked on. And so we must wring our hands very week or two and pretend that somehow dishonesty is the right thing to do or at least allowable, because the profit margin is all that matters and the truth is undesirable if not as profitable.

I still cannot think of a single example where covering up the truth of an item is the better thing to do than just being honest. But of course, honesty is not as good as money.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by G1911

It takes 1-3 seconds with the average typing speed to disclose the truth of what has been done to a card. It is not a burden. It is very, very easy to simply be honest and tell the truth. If 99% of buyers don’t care or won’t notice (I strongly doubt that), then there is no harm to the price for the virtue of being honest. Of course, the only reason not to disclose is that it does hurt the price if the card is known to be worked on. And so we must wring our hands very week or two and pretend that somehow dishonesty is the right thing to do or at least allowable, because the profit margin is all that matters and the truth is undesirable if not as profitable.

I still cannot think of a single example where covering up the truth of an item is the better thing to do than just being honest. But of course, honesty is not as good as money.

+1

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Snowman

LMFAO

Yeah, I'm done here. Have fun jerking each other off guys. Adios

Second time he has announced his departure in two days. I’ll set the over/under at Monday for his next post

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trouble in chemical spray paradise?

https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...ing-rejections

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Trouble in chemical spray paradise?

https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...ing-rejections

I wonder if PSA will alter (pun intended) their guarantee. They may try to proactively absolve themselves from blame in advance. There is a very real possibility of issues appearing (down the road) with graded cards that have been cleaned with KCC products.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oh, but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO effing legit, isn't it\?

We are fine with blowing on it or using a dab or water or using microfiber to clean it," said Ryan Hoge, president of Collectors, parent company of PSA. "But when you are doing much more, we are not on board."

[4815162342]

Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end of this madness.

[G1911]

But I was told PSA is fine with Kurt’s and doesn’t care and that’s part of why it’s not altering!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

But I was told PSA is fine with Kurt’s and doesn’t care and that’s part of why it’s not altering!

Like Bogart, you were misinformed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Spoken like a true BS artist. I think they just did call you.

Colone said he's surprised PSA officials haven't called him to talk.

"I come in peace and I'm really open minded," Colone said. "Let's exchange practices and data with each other."

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh, but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO effing legit, isn't it\?

We are fine with blowing on it or using a dab or water or using microfiber to clean it," said Ryan Hoge, president of Collectors, parent company of PSA. "But when you are doing much more, we are not on board."

I know this might be a bit snowmanish of me but doesn't PSA have to make this statement? It is also actually hilarious after they were shown how inept or complicit they were in grading so many severely altered cards on Blowout and remained silent the entire time.

I think Kurt might be a con artist on top of being a card doctor. It is my opinion he is not only fixing up cards and "violating" PSA's submission terms, (which based on Hoge's statement 99% of the people in the hobby are violating submission terms by soaking cards in water) but also deceiving all the people who buy his kits thinking creases and wrinkles will just go away on their own by using the spray.