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#51
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It was sold on eBay by PWCC Vault, no? I suppose it's possible that they didn't disclose it on eBay the way they did in the auction, but I have a hard time giving Travis the benefit of the doubt when card altering and financial interests intersect.
Last edited by gunboat82; 04-18-2024 at 09:09 AM. |
#52
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I have never bought a card from PWCC's vault so I have no idea if they use descriptions or not. Gonna give ya that one. If you got it in a fixed price listing from the vault with no description, I would imagine if you were paying that much ya might want to do the same basic 2 minute search that I did and see the history but maybe you have so much cash coming out of your ass from all your gambling winnings that it did not matter. Apologies for saying it was in an Authentic Altered holder as I was going on memory but that card was slabbed prior to SGC's recent change where they now ID the reason for the A. Either way, you did an elaborate description on how you examined the card for days and see no reason it was in an authentic holder. It is a nice looking card that is clearly trimmed and also looks like the same person bathed the card in some secret sauce to minimize some toning or staining. So you either suck at seeing alterations or you conveniently looked the other way to cover up the fact that the card was described as being trimmed and decided to withhold that info from your potential buyer. I am not a data scientist so not sure how to calculate which one is more probable. I see the card has been reholdered which suggests something: 1) You did try to get the card graded by breaking it out and resubmitting or 2) you simply wanted the card in a new holder, maybe in an effort to make the history less trackable. The fact you got it reholdered and it came back again as an A means it was rejected again for being altered or if you simply sent it in for a reholder because you accepted SGC's findings as it being altered. Either way you failed to disclose and instead participated in being misleading.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#53
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Regardless, whoever said that it was trimmed on the bottom edge in whatever listing this is from is an idiot. Here's a close-up pic of the bottom edge (not that it would matter here, as you guys probably have no idea what you're looking at anyhow, but this is NOT what a trimmed edge looks like).
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#54
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Not all trim jobs are done the Evan Mathis way with a paper cutter that leaves leaves a smooth edge but you knew that, right?
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y Last edited by Lorewalker; 04-18-2024 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Added info |
#55
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So one bottle is good for 1000 cards and he sold 30 bottles? It's one of the more ridiculous claims I've ever heard
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#56
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Just keep talking out your ass "Chase Antley". PWCC paid to have the card reholdered because the casing was tampered with. Someone tried to open it with a screwdriver and failed. The guy I sold it to is a friend. He got on a plane and flew out to San Jose and bought the card in person. He's an extremely experienced collector who knows exactly what he's doing and what he's looking at. We sat down together and he looked it over very thoroughly with a jeweler's loupe. He looked at all the edges closely. As did I. I told him my best guess is that it is most likely a factory miscut as it is just barely out of square on the top edge. But all the edges look correct. He agreed. I told him the reason I didn't resubmit it for grading is because SGC changed how they identify "AUTHENTIC" cards. I believe the card would be worth less if it somehow came back in an "AUTHENTIC ALTERED" holder or an "AUTHENTIC TRIMMED" holder, despite it very clearly not being trimmed. I believe it is worth more in the "A" holder. And I believe it looks better in that holder as well. The buyer agreed.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#57
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I've personally known about him since 2019, so ya, several years. And he has 5 full-time employees. You can often see them filling orders in the background of his videos. He sells a lot of product. I see no reason to question his claims.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#58
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__________________
If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#59
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By the way, "Chase Antley", why don't you post your real name here? Got something to hide?
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#60
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Can Snowman make a post without an appeal to authority?
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#61
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Pretty sure that when you had the card listed on ebay it was in the original holder but again I could be wrong. And it is convenient to rely on grading results when they suit you and the story you want to tell rather than be completely transparent and disclose. SGC does not get it wrong on a card like that. If you were so sure it was a factory miscut then Authentic Miscut is just as good as Authentic. Not buying this at all.
__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#62
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Happy to privately provide proof, Travis. At least I can prove things I type.
__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#63
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How many forms of ID do we need to provide to disagree with his agenda of fraud or observe when he has made something up? Think 3 is enough?
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#64
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If we need to verify any IDs I can help. The accused would need to send me a legal document like a check blank with their name on it. It also needs to be signed on the bottom right line so I can make sure your signature matches known examples. I can also pre verify anyone who wants to send me those documents.
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#65
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#66
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I am now living in So Cal...maybe Travis and I can get together one of these days at a show. I have posted here that I like the guy and I do. Maybe I am too hard on him but some of his posts are just so full of shit. The few times he has been on point I don't hesitate to support him. Travis, wanna jump on a call? Lemme know if ya do.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#67
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Let's see your proof, Snowman, for your posted claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity. |
#68
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So no comments about this alleged "trimmed" bottom edge after I posted pics of it showing that is very clearly has not been trimmed? No? That's what I thought... Crickets.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#69
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It honestly looks trimmed to me. The bottom edge looks nothing like the sides.
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#70
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Have proof for your claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity? Or were you just completely lying again and made it up? Crickets
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#71
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Also in the same post above you said you preferred it being in the Authentic holder rather than the Authentic Altered or Authentic Trimmed. If you are sure the card is not altered but is merely a factory miscut, why not get it slabbed as such? Lastly, all the scans I have seen appears to show some toning on the borders and I have to wonder if the card was soaked or cleaned (not by you of course). At the end of the day, I trust SGC's head graders' opinions over yours and I think you do too.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#72
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So full of crap the ID will read..
Eyes:brown
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#73
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Yeah, I'm done here. Have fun jerking each other off guys. Adios
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#74
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So you just completely fucking lied and made things up yet again? The only jerk off is this lying piece of shit lol
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#75
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I knew a guy who was never wrong. I called him Dad. But he never mocked, or cursed, or acted superior to, or ridiculed, anyone who disagreed with him.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#76
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Does this mean the spring thaw has come at last, and all things made of snow have finally melted away for good??
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#77
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Keys to being an effective arguer.
1. Know what you're taking about. 2. Make your points clearly and consistently. 3. Don't insult someone who disagrees with you no matter how unfounded their disagreement is, always be respectful. Explain, respectfully, why they're wrong. 4. Acknowledge when someone has raised a reasonable difference of opinion, and above all else, admit when someone makes a valid counterpoint.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-18-2024 at 09:00 PM. |
#78
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#79
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I now am curious what blowout's grounds were for his being banned. I am not calling for his being banned from here. I actually think he has a great deal to offer but he is never wrong. Very thin skinned and unable to be humble. If I am wrong, I want someone telling me so I can learn. Travis thinks he has all the answers to everything and he simply ends up making a fool of himself.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#80
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If undeniably and completely lying about people and fraud isn't enough to get one banned, I would think basically nothing short of violence is bannable lol
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#81
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And if he did leave, his exit turning it sexual was certainly a first since I have been here. I think a GFY would have sufficed, however.
__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#82
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This dude is a lot of fun for his over the top stupidity, ego and complete disassociation from the truth even outside of his agenda, but he's also a more or less open fraudster who takes over every single thread about fraud to preach it and then turn it into a series of increasingly absurd lies and egotistical rants. It's beyond ridiculous by now. Is there any point where fraudsters get booted? How far is completely lying about specific people allowed to go? |
#83
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__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#84
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If it is indeed a factory miscut, are there examples of other cards (ideally on the same row of the sheet) that exhibit the very same characteristics? Finding such examples would definitely help bolster the theory.
Last edited by BillyCoxDodgers3B; 04-19-2024 at 04:47 AM. |
#85
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Oy, as Yogi would say - this thread is deja vu all over again...
My point from other threads remarkably similar to this one is that unless you (or I, or a grading company, or the FBI / CIA) can TELL after the fact that a card was indeed cleaned / spiffed-up / altered - then this whole thing is a moot point, because any professional judgement of said card will render it NOT altered, and 99.44% of potential buyers for the card will never be the wiser. As for the rest - condemning only the act of cleaning / using KCC products in abstentia, thinking that those who engage in this stuff are bad characters - all just becomes speculation and finger pointing that leads to nowhere. Sure, they are bad people. It's "shady". Oh, can you tell which card here was altered? Me neither. I've played around with Kurt's spray before on my own worthless PC cards just because I was curious. Does it work to an extent? Yes. Is it a magic bullet? No. Beyond that, I still enjoy chasing and collecting cards much more than I do being a full-time cleaning technician - so the whole thing is not for me. But until PSA and others can start pointing to his altered cards with repetitive accuracy (Please. They can't even spot trimming and minsize with any type of repetitive accuracy) - the practice is going to continue and become even more widespread.
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 04-19-2024 at 06:20 AM. |
#86
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The more important question is where do you stand on disclosing what's been done to the card? That's the real heart of the argument. Should the Travises of the world be allowed to sell doctored cards without disclosing that they're doctored because, as you put it, 99.44% of potential buyers will never know the difference? |
#87
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Now, If I had a vintage 60's Topps card that I took and removed a crease from using Kurt's methods, and cleaned some wax up off the back via the same, and sent that in to SGC and it gets a 6 because they can't tell (this is what happens every day...) and I get that back - do I say anything other than this card is an SGC 6? I don't know that I would do that but not sure I can find fault with those who do. The whole point of slabbing cards up to sell is to be able to let the grade speak for the card and not to necessarily go over every single detail about the physical card - which the large majority of ebay sellers anymore don't anyway. Herein of course lies the conundrum. If / when creases start returning en masse on "fixed" cards that have been slabbed, there is of course going to be a problem. But how will it be addressed in reality? My guess is the grading companies will take the hit over and above "bad actors" in the hobby who will of course largely remain anonymous. Kurt's customers are becoming so widespread it's not as if there are going to be singular villains like a Gary Moser or PWCC to point to. IMO anyway.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 04-19-2024 at 08:08 AM. |
#88
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__________________
Successful NET54 transactions: robw1959, Tyruscobb |
#89
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__________________
Successful NET54 transactions: robw1959, Tyruscobb |
#90
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It takes 1-3 seconds with the average typing speed to disclose the truth of what has been done to a card. It is not a burden. It is very, very easy to simply be honest and tell the truth. If 99% of buyers don’t care or won’t notice (I strongly doubt that), then there is no harm to the price for the virtue of being honest. Of course, the only reason not to disclose is that it does hurt the price if the card is known to be worked on. And so we must wring our hands very week or two and pretend that somehow dishonesty is the right thing to do or at least allowable, because the profit margin is all that matters and the truth is undesirable if not as profitable.
I still cannot think of a single example where covering up the truth of an item is the better thing to do than just being honest. But of course, honesty is not as good as money. |
#91
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#92
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Second time he has announced his departure in two days. I’ll set the over/under at Monday for his next post
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#93
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#94
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__________________
Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#95
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Oh, but it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO effing legit, isn't it\?
We are fine with blowing on it or using a dab or water or using microfiber to clean it," said Ryan Hoge, president of Collectors, parent company of PSA. "But when you are doing much more, we are not on board."
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#96
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Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end of this madness.
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#97
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But I was told PSA is fine with Kurt’s and doesn’t care and that’s part of why it’s not altering!
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#98
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Like Bogart, you were misinformed.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#99
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Spoken like a true BS artist. I think they just did call you.
Colone said he's surprised PSA officials haven't called him to talk. "I come in peace and I'm really open minded," Colone said. "Let's exchange practices and data with each other."
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-20-2024 at 09:41 PM. |
#100
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I think Kurt might be a con artist on top of being a card doctor. It is my opinion he is not only fixing up cards and "violating" PSA's submission terms, (which based on Hoge's statement 99% of the people in the hobby are violating submission terms by soaking cards in water) but also deceiving all the people who buy his kits thinking creases and wrinkles will just go away on their own by using the spray.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
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