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#1
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1991 Topps variations
i am putting together a ‘91 topps set and trying to include all the main variations, including the light/dark logos and print code variations
i dont seem to have a single “dark logo, print code A/B” variation. does anyone know where these come from? certain factory sets, wax/cello/rack, etc? thanks in advance |
#2
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Junk Wax Gems has a list of known A/B he keeps up - https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ta...ps-master-set/
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. Last edited by JustinD; 11-08-2023 at 09:38 AM. |
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thanks justin. that was super helpful. i had no idea those AB variations were rare…just thought they came from a type of packaging that i never opened. those might have to just come off my target list of there are only 10-15 of each.
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#4
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Agree with Justin. Assuming you do not limit yourself to "hobby recognized variations", I do not think I have ever seen a full "master" list of all the possible front and back variants of this set. But if one exists I would expect Dylan to have it
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#5
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RE: the A*B* cards there should be 132 subjects since they affect the A* sheet only.
To date, no concrete info exists on what packaging type(s) they come from. Topps printed cards for two different destinations: hobby and retail and there are distinct variations between those runs and they each had their own set of correction runs as well. For example: boxes marked 'PICTURE CARDS' had certain errors initially that boxes produced at the same time marked 'BUBBLE GUM CARDS' did not. And visa-versa. Over time and updates to the plates, these eventually had some of the same versions in each box. To further complicate things, there are variations that only exist in one type or the other. This set is probably the most complex in Topps' (flagship) history, there is no real defined master set list to work off of, which, to me, makes it more fun and allows some flexibility. I went further into this in a Beckett article a few years ago. Happy to answer any questions I can about this set. I've spent way too much of my life with these cards.
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 11-10-2023 at 12:00 PM. |
#6
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thanks guys for all the great information. i truly had no idea how far down the rabbit hole i would be going with this set! i am going to read all the suggested articles and do a bit more research…but maybe now i will try to tackle it…or parts of it.
mike |
#7
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The fun is that there's still room to discover something "new" in 91 Topps.
And with differences of opinion about what's a variation or not, there probably won't be a truly complete list. For example, I separate out a third version of the backs that under UV is a very dark red. It's reactive, but in an odd way. I also have set aside cards with what I think are stock differences also UV related. And a couple potential gloss differences. And my list for varieties that can be seen has stuff that isn't on other lists. It's a fun set if you're both cheap and insane. |
#8
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I have another question for you 1991 Topps collectors. I think this has been previously discussed. It is my understanding that prior to the issue of the set in packs Topps went into the market and got at least 3 full sets of each prior issue. Someone could win a complete run as the grand prize in the instant win game insert contest ( you can collect a set of the instant win cards as well. I have a set minus 3 which I think may have been single issue big winner cards....not sure). Anyone know if the grand prize was collected
I think you could also win a complete set of each the individual sets as well, right ?. Anyone know if all sets were claimed/won ? Finally you could get individual cards inserted into the 91 packs. ( I do not think 1951 was included). The oversized cards ( 52-56) were not included as inserts and had wo be claimed with winner cards. I think some pos 56 cards with a recognized higher value at the time also had to be claimed by winner card. Not sure. Anyone know if all cards were claimed ? Wonder if some decent value cards still remain out there in unopened packs The inserts cards I have seen, many possibly bought on the secondary market for the promotion, were not "mint" condition cards |
#9
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Last edited by bnorth; 11-09-2023 at 11:03 AM. |
#10
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For a brief time in 91-92, Topps published it's own magazine and I distinctly recall a photo of the lucky guy who was the grand prize winner posing about albums full of cards. I think it said he'd be selling the collection. |
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But this was also back when every gas station had a case of cards on the shelf and Sam's Club was selling pallets.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#12
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LOL, pretty sure you can still buy pallets of 91 Topps.
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#13
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100%! And while I do think we are nearing the end of discovery of new things, I absolutely believe there are a few more surprises to be uncovered.
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#14
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The Instant Win Sweepstakes cards with X on them were winners for various prizes. One of them turned up recently on Facebook but the seller wasn't interested in moving it. It was the first time I'd actually seen one. I believe the vintage card redemptions are a different thing and I have yet to see a copy of any redemption. Im assuming any pulled were mailed in, the question is whether any remain in packs.
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#15
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Thanks Dylan. I have all the Topps magazines. Guess I need to go back and read them
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#16
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Butch T.
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
#17
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The instant game card indicates "1991 Topps Retail Packs ". Chance for a winner 1/1000. This would come to around 24,530,000 packs . Divided by 36/box, about 682,000 retail boxes !!!!
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Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline). |
#18
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I pulled a 1962 Topps Dallas Green about 10 years ago looking for errors/variations.
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#19
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I pulled a VERY OC 1970 Topps Cito Gaston...after opening a ton I had bought at Costco, I was pretty excited to actually get something.
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John Otto 1963 Fleer - 1981-90 Fleer/Donruss/Score/Leaf Complete 1953 - 1990 Topps/Bowman Complete 1953-55 Dormand SGC COMPLETE SGC AVG Score - 4.03 |
#20
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#21
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I believe that Tom Trebelhorn is one of the managers and the only way that you can find his A* variation is with the A*B* run. Im curious about the other MGR card.
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#22
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I'm going to go with the variations that are on Trading Card Database for now. I'll just leave blank spaces in my binder sheets for all of those A*B* (and probably the Whiten and Drabek) variations. I've bought unopened wax, cello and rack pack boxes, plus a few complete sets (factory and hand-collated) in an attempt to get all of the more common variations before I give it a rest for a while. I did actually pull at least one vintage card from a pack. It was a 1970 Terry Harmon, I believe. I still have it. It will go in the binder at the end of the (massive) complete set. |
#23
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Welcome aboard redfan
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#24
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Double post
Last edited by ALR-bishop; 11-30-2023 at 09:12 PM. |
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Dylan likely has several more
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#26
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If anyone needs a few thousand more to sort through please make me an offer....
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My website: https://edwardwclayton.wixsite.com/my-site |
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Whiten was a quick get for me but Drabek took a bit of time. And I ended up getting both for reasonable prices, which is always nice. I just wish the cello case I bought back in 91 has these in them. But alas, nope.
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
#28
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I found these and a couple Dennis Boyd with the pink tip. The backs show the regular and error version. The Segui is the error corrected inner border error. The Drabek is a color variation the inner border is grey and has a purple background on the color variation.
Too bad this thread wasn't posted a few months ago. I recently threw away a 800 count box full of most of 91 errors except the AB sheet code errors. |
#29
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Al,
There is another Whiten variant where his hand is over the thin black border. Not to be confused with the hand extending into the white area error. But his flesh is over the thin black line. Not easy to spot and therefore not too desirable to most, Im sure. Sadly, I need a Whiten, Hoiles and Drabek for a working "master set."
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#30
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Fluorescing Backs
so I have been chipping away at variations and a desert shield set. even modestly invested in a handheld UV/blacklight to try and help identify fakes in DS. That's just been a whole other story...but I digress
I did find something weird in the base topps set backs. I have maybe 15 Chipper rookies. There isnt a "bold logo" variation for this and they all have the same sheet IDs. 14 of the cards fluoresce on the back around the edges and on the light logo...but one literally doesnt light up at all. That seems odd to me...and I'm not seeing it with any of the other cards with similar characteristics. I don't think I have this one card that perhaps came out of a busted factory set of vending...but would that explain why only one is different? I am sure the other 14 came from various stages of print runs throughout late '90 and '91. |
#31
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#32
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the different packaging makes sense...just weird that I have the single standout
and on the related topic of Desert Shield...I spent some time looking on Blowout at some of the fakes they had uncovered along with high -res closeups of the stamps. I thought I was pretty comfortable after reading all the help you and ZachWheat had provided over the years...but now I think I give up. If those slabbed DS cards are really fakes, it means the scammers have learned all they needed and have perfected their craft...I cannot discern much of a difference anymore. I really had hoped that cards in the most recent slabs would come with some more intelligence from the TPGs...(yes, I realize how ridiculous that sounded before I even finished typing it) did the fakery start immediately in 1991? the reason I ask is that the bulk of cards I have are from early accumulated lots...maybe halfway into 1992. I had always "hoped" that they were legit |
#33
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#34
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Just found another one. Found this Robin Ventura in a binder with what looks like a brown inner left border. I believe this to be the one Dylan has listed as red with grey overprint.
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#35
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DS Chipper
hey Ben. here is the raw chipper i have had for 30 years….spurred the questions about when the “fakes” started. the picture admittedy isn’t great
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#36
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Here is your Chipper next to a known real one with the shield on similar condition. With the fuzzy pic and the weird tilt of the shield on the card I don't like it, a clearer pic would help. I do like it more since I put the other one beside it than when I first looked at it. I would bet PSA would like it though. What does everyone else think?
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#37
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Quote:
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There should not be any variations in the Desert Shield set since the cards were from a very distinct run. Whenever I have encountered an error or correted counterpart to a known DS variant, it is always a fake (Mike Walker, Efrain Valdez, Pat Borders etc). I believe that all DS cards should have glow backs but Zack Wheat found one or two oddballs in his stash. All A* and B* DS cards should he Bold 40th backs. And on the topic of fake DS cards, if anyone stumbles on a fake Robin Ventura, please let me know, I'd love to own a copy if it uses the wrong border version or is non-bold 40th on back.
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 12-05-2023 at 02:12 PM. |
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Ben,
I know my Chipper pics arent very good...but my scanner is even worse. In hand, that one lesser known "tell" that I think I know about from corresponding with you and ZachWheat looks ok...and on the known fakes it really stands out the other thing about timing...Chipper was certainly a known guy in '91...but he ceretianly wasn't Chipper Chipper yet...would someone really have spent time faking a prospect and selling it for $5...I mean with inflation, thats like $60 today, but still |
#39
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I just got lucky because usually my pics are way worse than yours on the DS cards. |
#40
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And...for the record, Chipper was literally the #1 overall draft pick in 1990. He was cheap in 1991-1992 (I bought every card that Burbank Sportscards had in stock back then and most were $0.30-40/ea) but a major prospect.
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#41
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Just revised the checklist/article for 1991 Topps with a lot of supplemental information.
https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/20...ing-checklist/
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#42
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I think amongst other things he purchased a 1982 Topps Traded Case and a 1952 Topps Mantle. Regards Rich
__________________
Look for our show listings in the Net 54 Calendar section |
#43
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I do know about the grand prize winner, he was also featured in Topps Magazine at the time. Also, according to an ad run around late 1991, Mr. Mint bought his collection! To clarify, I don't think any expired/unredeemed redemptions have turned up for sale - I dont know anyone who owns one. There are two types of redemptions that Topps inserted: (1) For oversized/high value vintage cards (2) For Sweepstakes Game prizes (cards with X on front)
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr Last edited by jacksoncoupage; 12-30-2023 at 05:03 PM. |
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Also want to add I like many others greatly appreciate all the effort Dylan has put into his website. |
#45
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Last edited by Zach Wheat; 02-06-2024 at 09:17 AM. |
#46
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This card I have is from 1990, right ?
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#47
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1990 Major Legue Debut (corners of the sheet)
Thanks Ben!
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JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#48
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1991 Randy Bush
Didn’t see the 124 Bush no print code listed on the newest version of the’91 checklist. Is that still a real variant?
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#49
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It sure is. I own a single copy and have never found another. A few sold on ebay/comc a couple years back for very low prices.
__________________
JunkWaxGems - Showcasing the rare, little-known and sometimes mysterious cards of the 1980s and 1990s. https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/ Oddball, promos and variations:http://www.comc.com/Users/JunkWaxGems,sr |
#50
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A basic (dumb?) question from someone who already has 50-60 variations in his PC and is wondering how deep into this swamp to go....
Are ALL 792 cards available in light and dark logo versions? Anyone want to speculate what the heck was happening at Topps in late 1990 and early 1991 that caused this insanity? Last edited by deweyinthehall; 02-11-2024 at 09:18 AM. |
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