What card type is ultra rare but not desirable?

[timber63401]

The Cobb and Ruth cards of the world are awesome and I wish I had one but there are hundreds if not thousands sold every year and a vast majority just come down to money. Just wondering if there is a pre-war type card or piece that maybe comes up for sale 2-3 times a year at most but isn't very popular and sells for <$300ish or even less? I think it would be fun to collect and treasure hunt all the auctions houses and Ebay looking for something that rarely shows up but is affordable. Thanks.

[packs]

Buchner Gold Coins might fit the bill you're looking for. They're not exactly super rare or anything but they trickle out and generally sell for affordable prices because of their generic images. The checklist is pretty packed though with all the 19th century stars.

[bandrus1]

m101's with off back

over the course of the last year I have purchased 2 HOF'ers that the card is the only one in existence for 400 and under

[Leon]

Originally Posted by timber63401

The Cobb and Ruth cards of the world are awesome and I wish I had one but there are hundreds if not thousands sold every year and a vast majority just come down to money. Just wondering if there is a pre-war type card or piece that maybe comes up for sale 2-3 times a year at most but isn't very popular and sells for <$300ish or even less? I think it would be fun to collect and treasure hunt all the auctions houses and Ebay looking for something that rarely shows up but is affordable. Thanks.

I collect pretty heavily in this niche. (because I can still afford it)

Desirability is another issue but I love stuff rarely seen.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by timber63401

The Cobb and Ruth cards of the world are awesome and I wish I had one but there are hundreds if not thousands sold every year and a vast majority just come down to money. Just wondering if there is a pre-war type card or piece that maybe comes up for sale 2-3 times a year at most but isn't very popular and sells for <$300ish or even less? I think it would be fun to collect and treasure hunt all the auctions houses and Ebay looking for something that rarely shows up but is affordable. Thanks.

Pocket schedules.

[BeanTown]

Flip outs and foldout postcards.

https://oldcardboard.com/pc/1906-win...nimation10.gif

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Leon

I collect pretty heavily in this niche. (because I can still afford it)

Desirability is another issue but I love stuff rarely seen.

The reason that more of those survive is because Harry would include them in his replies to pioneering autograph collectors who wrote to him. I have owned an autographed example.

You have to be careful, though, as Harry had help with his mail and many autographs which are still trading hands as authentic to this day are in fact secretarial. I don't even think the various TPAs and many longtime dealers seem to be aware of this.

[packs]

Here's mine. I think I paid $10 for it:

[raulus]

Interesting thought exercise.

Part of the fun is that by definition, a piece would have to be pretty well unknown or undiscovered. Because if there are only a few of them and they're well known, then the price usually starts to rise above your target range. I suppose the exception to that rule is if a piece is well known, but for whatever reason no one wants them, either because they don't care, or because they're just hideously repellent.

I suppose the other factor is whether a grader will slab it. History has shown that there are plenty of overlooked issues that aren't in slabs, but once a grader starts slabbing them (looking at you, PSA), then the demand for the item (and therefore the price) start to jump in a hurry.

I know that the OP implied that this is just for pre-war stuff, but being a mostly postwar collector, my mind naturally gravitated to a lot of the food issues, which are often difficult to find yet still relatively inexpensive. Outside of maybe the superstars who trade a little more frequently, any given piece from a set might only trade once a year or less. I'm thinking of stuff like Post cereal, Jello, Bazooka, Stahl Meyer, and Briggs Meats, which loosely fit your criteria, except that the HOFers in high grades will trade well above your price range. I'm sure that we could add to that list without having to dig around very much.

If these issues don't tickle your rarity fetish, then you could always shift gears a little to maybe stuff like complete Jello boxes and complete Bazooka boxes, relatively few of which survived intact. While the HOFers will still command big dollars (particularly in higher grades), the lesser known players tend to trade for a price that isn't far from your range.

[MR RAREBACK]

Thinking maybe
d303 general baking
E92 crofts cocoa or candy
D304 Weber back
Or just the hardest t206 back you can find for the price
Maybe a 1934 world wide Hornsby

[Luke]

Many pre-war sets fit this criteria. Some of my favorites are all the various backs of the 1916 m101 family, 1917 e135 family, and 1921/22 e121 family of backs.

[rhettyeakley]

One set I have always felt was vastly under-appreciated today vs how they were viewed in the past within the hobby are E125 American Caramel cards.

When I was first starting out in vintage in the 1990’s they were so rare and expensive that I would dream of finding the unusual shaped “stand-up” cards!

Fast forward to today and while the stars of the set can fetch decent prices I am not sure any common would cost any more today than 20+ years ago, in fact they may be worth less.

Not sure why they aren’t worth more given their rarity.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

One set I have always felt was vastly under-appreciated today vs how they were viewed in the past within the hobby are E125 American Caramel cards.

When I was first starting out in vintage in the 1990’s they were so rare and expensive that I would dream of finding the unusual shaped “stand-up” cards!

Fast forward to today and while the stars of the set can fetch decent prices I am not sure any common would cost any more today than 20+ years ago, in fact they may be worth less.

Not sure why they aren’t worth more given their rarity.

Size, shape, limited availability.
.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Leon

Size, shape, limited availability.
.

More rhetorical when I said that last line but I get it.

It may be more the shape than size IMO as items much larger are highly prized (W600 for example).

I love the quirky nature of the cards…just so unique! That being said, I also love round Colgan’s Chip cards so I fully realize I am the outlier here 🤣

[MR RAREBACK]

Rare and desirable to some
Recent pickup’s

[Shankweather]

Not quite as rare as some of these others, but I've always felt 1906 Fan Craze was underappreciated. Great looking cards that sell for less than other issues from the same era.

[Exhibitman]

I don't think "ultra rare" and "not desirable" overlap, specifically because an ultra-rare card does not transact enough to make a factual assessment of desirability. If a card or set has enough of a sale history to be labeled as not desirable, it isn't ultra rare.

Beyond semantics, so much of collecting outside of the mainstream depends on having a feel for the value rather than hard data and acting on it. As for value and demand, frankly, it is largely dependent on how well you can hype the rare item when you want to resell it. I'd venture to guess that many collectors simply do not know what an R94 is, let alone that there are two Babe Ruth cards in the set, so the only way they get to perceive it as desirable is to see and hear about it.



The only thing I know for sure is that whatever I think of an item's desirability, it is more likely than not that I will be surprised when it finally sells. I was floored by the price of a lower grade 1962 Pittsburgh Exhibit Sandy Koufax in the last REA. No idea it was at that level of demand, but it is a very tough card with no recent history.

[brian1961]

Adam has offered a real cogent response, as usual. Last year, a prime example occurred in a Heritage Auction. They were offering an essentially unheard of 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle in PSA 8 NM/MT. Extremely few high-grade Stahl-Meyer Mantles have auctioned this century. The lame PSA Price Guide had pegged the card at about $50,000 to $60,000.

Heritage even did a preview on YOUTUBE about this beauty. The 58-second video may still be found on YOUTUBE if you're curious (simply type 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle). Well, the card sold for $210,000, including the buyer's premium. Opportunity rarely knocks for this one, so when it did.....

Earlier this month, Huggins & Scott concluded their auction. Amongst their items were a 1 of 1 1962 JELL-O Willie Mays unfolded box. Some collectors like this sort of unreal rarity. Trust me, it's legitimate, hailing from a find in the early 1980s, and sold in SCD by a prominent New York dealer. Well, opportunity knocked, and the 62 Mays unfolded box garnered 59 bids, and sold for $34,800.

As I recall, the same Huggins & Scott auction offered a similar 1 of 1 1962 JELL-O Roberto Clemente unfolded box, but I could not find what that baby sold for. Anyone know--please???

Certain issues may not have a huge following, as the mainstream cards always do, but the non-mainstream collectors are frequently ultra-driven, and will pay accordingly, if they are able. Such prized acquisitions are considered centerpieces of their collections.

I wish you happy hunting. --- Brian Powell

[raulus]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Earlier this month, Huggins & Scott concluded their auction. Amongst their items were a 1 of 1 1962 JELL-O Willie Mays unfolded box. Some collectors like this sort of unreal rarity. Trust me, it's legitimate, hailing from a find in the early 1980s, and sold in SCD by a prominent New York dealer. Well, opportunity knocked, and the 62 Mays unfolded box garnered 59 bids, and sold for $34,800.

As I recall, the same Huggins & Scott auctioned offered a similar 1 of 1 1962 JELL-O Roberto Clemente unfolded box, but I could not find what that baby sold for. Anyone know--please???

--- Brian Powell

I picked up the 1962 Jello complete boxes of Mays and Aaron at the Huggins auction last month. The Aaron went for just under $9.3k.

In terms of the Clemente, it sold at Heritage for $18.6k (including the juice). One of my good friends, a fellow net54 member, and hardcore Clemente collector picked it up.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...umbnail-071515

[brian1961]

Many thanks, Nicolo, for the auction results info.

I extend to you heartiest congratulations upon winning the Willie Mays and Hank Aaron 1962 JELL-O unfolded boxes. Wow, what prize catches; way da go, bro!!!!

The prices for the Clemente and Aaron were relatively low, for what they are, though by no means chump change. I recall seeing a scan of the Clemente unfolded box, and it was a marvelous beauty! Really, all of them looked great, and have been well cared for since that fabulous find of 40 years ago.

I can relate to your joy. Way back in fall, 1988, at the massive Philadelphia show, on the opening night, reserved for members only of the local Philly collectors club, I was able to buy a pair of those 1 of 1 unfolded 1962 JELL-O boxes, one from Mr. Mint Alan Rosen, and one from his minion, Brian Morris. That pair of hobby stalwarts did not deal in undesirable merchandize. I was absolutely thrilled to find and buy them. My point is simply, your new pair of beautiful boxes, I'm rather certain, has put you on a "cardboard cloud 9", from which you will stay aloft for quite awhile. Again, I am so happy for you. Thanks again for sharing your joy with us.

I suppose the mainstream gum card rookie collectors would not understand our fascination and devotion to the non-mainstream regional / food items, but in the end, they are less competition for US, and we're less competition for THEM.

Continued happy hunting, my fellow collecting warrior. --- Brian Powell

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by timber63401

The Cobb and Ruth cards of the world are awesome and I wish I had one but there are hundreds if not thousands sold every year and a vast majority just come down to money. Just wondering if there is a pre-war type card or piece that maybe comes up for sale 2-3 times a year at most but isn't very popular and sells for <$300ish or even less? I think it would be fun to collect and treasure hunt all the auctions houses and Ebay looking for something that rarely shows up but is affordable. Thanks.

I got this Lone Jack Gleason for 500 and the juice. You are describing what I collect, Buchner, OJ commons, other 19th century cards, also T213, e121, e106, e101, e102.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Many thanks, Nicolo, for the auction results info.

I extend to you heartiest congratulations upon winning the Willie Mays and Hank Aaron 1962 JELL-O unfolded boxes. Wow, what prize catches; way da go, bro!!!!

The prices for the Clemente and Aaron were relatively low, for what they are, though by no means chump change. I recall seeing a scan of the Clemente unfolded box, and it was a marvelous beauty! Really, all of them looked great, and have been well cared for since that fabulous find of 40 years ago.

I can relate to your joy. Way back in fall, 1988, at the massive Philadelphia show, on the opening night, reserved for members only of the local Philly collectors club, I was able to buy a pair of those 1 of 1 unfolded 1962 JELL-O boxes, one from Mr. Mint Alan Rosen, and one from his minion, Brian Morris. That pair of hobby stalwarts did not deal in undesirable merchandize. I was absolutely thrilled to find and buy them. My point is simply, your new pair of beautiful boxes, I'm rather certain, has put you on a "cardboard cloud 9", from which you will stay aloft for quite awhile. Again, I am so happy for you. Thanks again for sharing your joy with us.

I suppose the mainstream gum card rookie collectors would not understand our fascination and devotion to the non-mainstream regional / food items, but in the end, they are less competition for US, and we're less competition for THEM.

Continued happy hunting, my fellow collecting warrior. --- Brian Powell

Thanks Brian. These definitely fit into the White Whale category for serious player collectors. At the same time, these pieces obviously don't fit into the "value" part of this thread, even if they are exceptionally rare.

Although I have it on good authority that they were once relatively inexpensive. Attached is a copy of the price sheet for these boxes back when they were marketed in 1985 by Lew Lipset, provided to me courtesy of another hobby friend, Fred McKie. As I remarked to Fred, it probably would have been cheaper for me to build a time machine to acquire my collection...

[IMAXMAX]

How about these?
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=schapira

[jethrod3]

Scorecards. There are some very rare scorecards out there. Hank Aaron's first home run. Player debuts. Some with remarkable provenance. But compared to tickets, they are as rare or rarer, but seemingly not as desirable when you look at auction prices. Perhaps one day...if a grading company chooses to authenticate and grade them.

[CobbSpikedMe]

These obscure cards don't show up very often, and I don't think anyone knows exactly what they are. But I picked up each of them for less than your $300 suggestion. I love them myself. They are quite small and obviously hand cut as they are all different sizes.



.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Luke

Many pre-war sets fit this criteria. Some of my favorites are all the various backs of the 1916 m101 family, 1917 e135 family, and 1921/22 e121 family of backs.

I very much agree, although I often find brisk competition for stars in the E135's and very brisk competition for most Koesters.

[timber63401]

Keep them coming! I appreciate all the suggestions so far. Looks like I have a lot of info to sift thru and research to do in the upcoming days. Thanks.

[darwinbulldog]

Any of the M101-4 Everybody's types, W514 Barker Bread, W514 Mother's Bread, 1923 Fleer.

[Vintagedeputy]

If you follow pop reports, these are fairly rare.

[StraightRaceCards]

Originally Posted by timber63401

Keep them coming! I appreciate all the suggestions so far. Looks like I have a lot of info to sift thru and research to do in the upcoming days. Thanks.

I’m with you on enjoying learning and researching the new stuff I haven’t heard of.

It’s fun to find some new stuff. Been really into some random prewar track and field cards and it’s been a blast

[Leon]

I have only seen a few of these. And a lot of these 1-offs cost much less than the star cards shown every day. This was about $65 two years ago. Collecting on a budget!!

[Johnny T]

How about these? Even in high grades, these are not terribly expensive and if you are willing to get a 6 grade or less, they are downright cheap...and look great!!!!

1913 Natl Game Cobb.jpg

1913 Nat'l Game Joe Jackson.jpg

[Touch'EmAll]

Those 1920's awful looking strip cards. I looked up the 1926 W512 cards, PSA pops pretty darn low. And not real desirable.

[Leon]

Relatively speaking these aren't expensive, but I rarely see them come up for sale.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Relatively speaking these aren't expensive, but I rarely see them come up for sale.

Relative to some things, I suppose, but they certainly aren't one of the types you can get for under $300. (I've tried.)

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Leon

Relatively speaking these aren't expensive, but I rarely see them come up for sale.

Thanks for sharing that. Chief was a friend of mine. Had never seen that.

[brianp-beme]

R308 Tattoo Orbit large size. The regular size self-developing cards are fairly tough to come by and unpopular as it is, but I think only a few of the 4 times as large card versions have been seen, and I only know of two players (Jimmy Foxx and Pepper Martin). I still don't think they would be too expensive, but perhaps the Foxx would still sell for a premium.

Brian

[BioCRN]

1930 Baguer Chocolate. They're tiny and they're Cuban issued, which doesn't help the collectable popularity even though it's a MLB player set.

Between SGC and PSA they've combined to grade 1-16 copies of each player and most are 1-5 population. The 16 population is, of course, Babe Ruth.

I spent a very long time looking a Cliff Heathcote from this set and when I finally landed one it cost me $40.

[Leon]

I think this was mentioned in another thread. R308-2 Large....I have seen about 2 of them, I believe.

[pete zouras]

toughies from the set that are apparently not as rare as the number of collectors collecting them.

[todeen]

I think 1938-39 W711 Cincinnati Reds team issued set should be on this list. It's debated if this is even a team issue. It's possible these cards came with milk delivery subscriptions; but that's never been confirmed because no one has found milk advertising declaring baseball cards.

The cards on ebay that are graded are asking more than the card is worth. People pay $20 raw for these cards, and let the graded copies sit forever.

Some of the cards have fewer than 10 known copies, and I believe some players have fewer than 5 known copies. I have seen a Johnny Vander Meer portrait only once. And the Edd Roush is also difficult to locate, but I've seen it maybe 3 times. I owned a copy once, but sold it, thinking I could locate another. The last one I saw sold for $150 raw.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Svabinsky78]

I'll second Fan Craze..... relatively scarce...only about 30-40 cards graded per star player between SGC and d PSA, yet they sell for a fraction of the T206s that came three years later....

There is also National Game and Tom Barker as someone else posted....I recently picked up the 1913 Nat Game Tris Speaker card for $200....the Grover Alexander rookie from the Tom Barker set I picked up for $450....both in PSA 6....

You have all the various strip cards from the 20s that are very affordable......

The 1941 Double Play are relatively cheap, compared to the 41 Play Ball.....I picked up the 41 Double Play Pee Wee Reese rookie ina 6.5 for $500.....a 6 Play Ball of Reese will set you back a lot more....

[Chris Counts]

1940 Play Ball Color of Bill McKechnie ...