Super high end Mantle cards

[Kco]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I think the Mantle premium will diminish with time because he, more than others, owes his card values to the nostalgia of those who actually saw him play, but it's a long slow process, and his childhood fans haven't left the scene yet. But pre-pandemic, key early Mantle cards traded at 4x-5x of Mays cards in the same set/grade, and now they are often more like 2x (52 Topps very much excepted). I don't buy cards as investments, but if I did, I wouldn't see Mantles as the best place to put my money for this reason.

Except that Ruth, the T206 lineage as a whole and literally 20 other players who no one today saw play have all continued to appreciate. For 95+% of players you're correct, Mantle falls in the other 5% (Mays, Jackie, etc also in that crew)

[Kco]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I think the Mantle premium will diminish with time because he, more than others, owes his card values to the nostalgia of those who actually saw him play, but it's a long slow process, and his childhood fans haven't left the scene yet. But pre-pandemic, key early Mantle cards traded at 4x-5x of Mays cards in the same set/grade, and now they are often more like 2x (52 Topps very much excepted). I don't buy cards as investments, but if I did, I wouldn't see Mantles as the best place to put my money for this reason.

Except that Ruth, the T206 lineage as a whole and literally 20 other players who no one today saw play have all continued to appreciate. For 95+% of players you're correct, Mantle falls in the other 5% (Mays, Jackie, etc also in that crew)

[Seven]

I don't see how Mantle prices, go down. Maybe they stagnate, but they pretty much are what they are. He is the main draw of post-war collectors, he will continue to be for as long as the Hobby is around. He's Mickey Mantle, as American as apple pie. He's a transcendent figure in the hobby.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Seven

I don't see how Mantle prices, go down. Maybe they stagnate, but they pretty much are what they are. He is the main draw of post-war collectors, he will continue to be for as long as the Hobby is around. He's Mickey Mantle, as American as apple pie. He's a transcendent figure in the hobby.

It's been a year, but this one comes to mind:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112451

Just to poke the bear a little, what's your best guess on what it would fetch today? Has it just stagnated or gone down?

I realize this is probably the high water mark, but I suspect it also proves the point that it's possible for even the mighty Mantle, including the mythical 311 to lose value. Particularly if you get into a major bidding war when you buy.

Now, if this owner holds for long enough, he'll probably come out ahead, or hopefully at least break even. Probably.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's been a year, but this one comes to mind:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112451

Just to poke the bear a little, what's your best guess on what it would fetch today? Has it just stagnated or gone down?

I realize this is probably the high water mark, but I suspect it also proves the point that it's possible for even the mighty Mantle, including the mythical 311 to lose value. Particularly if you get into a major bidding war when you buy.

Now, if this owner holds for long enough, he'll probably come out ahead, or hopefully at least break even. Probably.

I am far from an expert, that issue is nicely centered though, which I believe, still commands a premium. I don't understand the circumstances that elevated that one particular auction to such a high, as if you're comparing the prices of PSA 5's, they don't come close to it. Perhaps you are right, the person got into a major bidding war and had to have that card.

I will say though, I think if you're spending 300K on a card, you don't necessarily have to worry about breaking even. Chances are you have more than enough money. But that is a different discussion, for a different time.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

https://youtu.be/fVpKthuQCSc?si=NamBiTce17BDBN1z

Here, now you can show your great grandkids and they can say they saw Mantle play.

How many on this board have seen Ohtani play? Twelve Angels fans?

I've seen Shoestring Ohtami play a few times. Take my grandkids every year.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's been a year, but this one comes to mind:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112451

Just to poke the bear a little, what's your best guess on what it would fetch today? Has it just stagnated or gone down?

I realize this is probably the high water mark, but I suspect it also proves the point that it's possible for even the mighty Mantle, including the mythical 311 to lose value. Particularly if you get into a major bidding war when you buy.

Now, if this owner holds for long enough, he'll probably come out ahead, or hopefully at least break even. Probably.

They paid "8" prices cause it had "Eye Appeal"

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's been a year, but this one comes to mind:

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=112451

Just to poke the bear a little, what's your best guess on what it would fetch today? Has it just stagnated or gone down?

I realize this is probably the high water mark, but I suspect it also proves the point that it's possible for even the mighty Mantle, including the mythical 311 to lose value. Particularly if you get into a major bidding war when you buy.

Now, if this owner holds for long enough, he'll probably come out ahead, or hopefully at least break even. Probably.

$130k Max...sadly he got caught up, he way way overpaid... if he can hold for 10 plus years he is fine, if not will be tough. He will have to deep six this card

[Peter_Spaeth]

REA giddy premium. It happens a lot.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Seven

I will say though, I think if you're spending 300K on a card, you don't necessarily have to worry about breaking even. Chances are you have more than enough money. But that is a different discussion, for a different time.

In another era, I would agree with you. But I have thrown reason and expectations out the window the last 3 years.

Could it have been a collector buying it? Sure. It also could have been a flipper/ dealer looking for a mistake grade. Or worse, a quick flip.

[Johnny630]

This one played musical chairs from Heritage and PWCC…Feb 27 2022, $204,000 then May 19 2022 $180 PWCC 24k less.. did it ever really sell or was this a vault and swap? The world may never know ….

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/prem...ampaign=impact

[campyfan39]

I was born in 1973 and when I got into the hobby (first packs were 78 topps) and as I was growing up, the 52 Mantle was THE card. It was seen as the holy grail to an entire additional generation. I didn't know anything about pre war cards until I saw an article on the Honus but by then I was well into my 30's. So the post war for me is still my main interest and he is the biggest name of that era; though my favorite player is Campanella and I am a Dodgers fan

[mordecaibrown1]

Stahl Meyer Mantle pretty scarce in this condition pop 22 in anything past a 1.0

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by mordecaibrown1

Stahl Meyer Mantle pretty scarce in this condition pop 22 in anything past a 1.0

Hi, Sam Dodero. I really admire your beautiful 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle. You are quite right; any grade of this card higher than a 1.0 is pretty scarce, and yours looks low high-grade. That says a lot for the typical appearance of this issue, doesn't it, Sam? Considering this baby is an early Mantle card, pop 22 for anything past 1.0 is startling, when you really think about it.

Sam, I've owned mine for a bit over 35 years, and I felt EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to win it then. I'm very happy to still own it. For years, it's been an overlooked, underappreciated card. Once PSA included it in their TOP 250 Sportscards of All Time, some collectors began to take more notice.

Most of the appreciation for Mantle centers on his 1952 Topps, and that is understandable. Unfortunately, hobby writers found it too easy to just write about the easy, meaning the '52 Topps. Considering what Gem Mint and Mint examples have sold for in the last 2 years, the '52 Topps Mick should continue to be written about. Nevertheless, hobby writers should write about the beautiful, tougher to find Mantles.

Back to the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, I'll close with this. Remember Mr. Mint Alan Rosen? He's the dealer that engineered THE FIND of 1952 Topps high numbers, from whence came most all the highest graded '52 Topps Mantles. Well, I interviewed Rosen for my book on immediate post-war regional / food issues, and I asked him to compare a '52 Topps Mantle to a '53 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle. Alan had nothing to gain or lose in the matter; it was just a straight question. I have it on tape. His answer will blow you away, as it did me. Mr. Mint said:

"But the Mantle, to me the '52 Topps Mantle is sh** compared to a '53 Stahl-Meyer. ... " (Never Cheaper By the Dozen, page 207)

Well Sam, take care and continue to enjoy your Stahl-Meyer Mantle. I used to own a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, and loved it, and I miss it.

--- Brian Powell

[LincolnVT]

Personally, I prefer Jackie over Mantle for postwar. I see Robinson overcoming Mantle in the short term and over time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Personally, I prefer Jackie over Mantle for postwar. I see Robinson overcoming Mantle in the short term and over time.

Those are two very different propositions.

[mordecaibrown1]

Brian, Great info on the Stahl Meyer Mantle and story about Mr. Mint!!! And I do remember him as when I went to the conventions back in the 1980's & 90's He had the front table when you walked in. I Starting collecting back in 1983 and growing up in the Chicago area I got to know Bill Mastro and a few of his workers as well.

Thanks

Sam

[Seven]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hi, Sam Dodero. I really admire your beautiful 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle. You are quite right; any grade of this card higher than a 1.0 is pretty scarce, and yours looks low high-grade. That says a lot for the typical appearance of this issue, doesn't it, Sam? Considering this baby is an early Mantle card, pop 22 for anything past 1.0 is startling, when you really think about it.

Sam, I've owned mine for a bit over 35 years, and I felt EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to win it then. I'm very happy to still own it. For years, it's been an overlooked, underappreciated card. Once PSA included it in their TOP 250 Sportscards of All Time, some collectors began to take more notice.

Most of the appreciation for Mantle centers on his 1952 Topps, and that is understandable. Unfortunately, hobby writers found it too easy to just write about the easy, meaning the '52 Topps. Considering what Gem Mint and Mint examples have sold for in the last 2 years, the '52 Topps Mick should continue to be written about. Nevertheless, hobby writers should write about the beautiful, tougher to find Mantles.

Back to the 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, I'll close with this. Remember Mr. Mint Alan Rosen? He's the dealer that engineered THE FIND of 1952 Topps high numbers, from whence came most all the highest graded '52 Topps Mantles. Well, I interviewed Rosen for my book on immediate post-war regional / food issues, and I asked him to compare a '52 Topps Mantle to a '53 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle. Alan had nothing to gain or lose in the matter; it was just a straight question. I have it on tape. His answer will blow you away, as it did me. Mr. Mint said:

"But the Mantle, to me the '52 Topps Mantle is shit compared to a '53 Stahl-Meyer. ... " (Never Cheaper By the Dozen, page 207)

Well Sam, take care and continue to enjoy your Stahl-Meyer Mantle. I used to own a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, and loved it, and I miss it.

--- Brian Powell

The Stahl-Meyer issue is one of Mantle's nicest cards, in my opinion. You cannot go wrong with it. The photo, they used, was used on a couple of Mantle's alternative issues such as Briggs Meats, and his Dan-Dee issue. On the subject of alternative issues, another one of Mantle's best looking card, in my opinion, is his 1954 Red Heart.

I think the staying power that Mantle has, trumps pretty much every post-war player. Again, people have to realize he represents 1950's Americana. Those post war years, where the American dream was thriving. I think the thing that helps his mystique is the fact that he accomplished so much, but people still view him as one of the biggest "What If's?" due to his various injuries, and the fact that he put his body through hell, constantly boozing.

On the subject of other players overtaking him, I just don't see it. Yes Jackie's cultural significance in breaking the barrier was huge, I do think he will see an eventual bump, once Rachael passes away, as Jackie's always relevant name will receive even more publicity. But I still don't see him passing The Mick. Aaron and Mays both had better overall careers than Mickey, and even with the recent bumps Willie has gotten, neither are over taking him.

[GeoPoto]

Rachael Robinson died last year.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

Rachael Robinson died last year.

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Not according to WIkipedia.

Rachel Annetta Robinson[1] (née Isum; born July 19, 1922)[1] is an American former professor and registered nurse. She is the widow of professional baseball player Jackie Robinson. After her husband's death, she founded the Jackie Robinson Foundation.

[GeoPoto]

I stand corrected. And apologize.

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[raulus]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

Rachael Robinson died last year.

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“The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.”