Ty Cobb’s Legacy

[todeen]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's possible that I'm misremembering, but my recollection from my readings is that Cobb's father was both an academic and believed in equality of the races. So perhaps it was Cobb's father who was himself an outlier in the world of racist academia.

Like I said, I am not well read on Cobb. My contention was that the assumption that Cobb's father was an academic and therefore less racist had no merit in the discussion. We should not assume one's profession makes them something or does not. It's stereotyping, and this thread is trying to break through the stereotypes and fabricated narratives that have been painted about Cobb. If Cobb's father was an outlier in the world of racist academia, it was because of his personal experiences.

Let's take for example a current stereotype = Public school teachers are liberals. Are many teachers liberal? I don't know. Where I work 70% of the population is conservative. So in my dealings, I know just as many teachers who are Republican as I know Democrats. So the stereotype is wrong in my neck of the woods.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

Let's take for example a current stereotype = Public school teachers are liberals. Are many teachers liberal? I don't know. Where I work 70% of the population is conservative. So in my dealings, I know just as many teachers who are Republican as I know Democrats. So the stereotype is wrong in my neck of the woods.

I'm just a simple caveman, but doesn't this demonstrate the liberal teacher bias (although in an antidotal, non significant sample size?)

If 70% of the population is conservative, wouldn't you expect about 70% of teachers to be Republicans? The fact only 50% are Republicans means a higher percentage of the liberals in your population are teachers, compared to conservatives.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by todeen

Like I said, I am not well read on Cobb. My contention was that the assumption that Cobb's father was an academic and therefore less racist had no merit in the discussion. We should not assume one's profession makes them something or does not. It's stereotyping, and this thread is trying to break through the stereotypes and fabricated narratives that have been painted about Cobb. If Cobb's father was an outlier in the world of racist academia, it was because of his personal experiences.

Let's take for example a current stereotype = Public school teachers are liberals. Are many teachers liberal? I don't know. Where I work 70% of the population is conservative. So in my dealings, I know just as many teachers who are Republican as I know Democrats. So the stereotype is wrong in my neck of the woods.

I think I’m less focused on the stereotype of liberal v conservative, racist or nonracist, and more focused on the fact that a university professor will expose their kids to different experiences, intellectual theories, and ideas as opposed to say your average coal miner. Nothing against coal miners!

Whether that has an impact on one’s racist bent is, of course, subject to debate.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by raulus

I think I’m less focused on the stereotype of liberal v conservative, racist or nonracist, and more focused on the fact that a university professor will expose their kids to different experiences, intellectual theories, and ideas as opposed to say your average coal miner. Nothing against coal miners!

Whether that has an impact on one’s racist bent is, of course, subject to debate.

Respectfully, this sounds to me like a stereotype as well.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Respectfully, this sounds to me like a stereotype as well.

Interesting.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by raulus

I think I’m less focused on the stereotype of liberal v conservative, racist or nonracist, and more focused on the fact that a university professor will expose their kids to different experiences, intellectual theories, and ideas as opposed to say your average coal miner. Nothing against coal miners!

Whether that has an impact on one’s racist bent is, of course, subject to debate.

I see what trail you were trying to take us down. Like how Indiana Jones father tried to influence him. I think if the evidence shows that Cobb's father took an active role in his life, than this could certainly be true.

And I do agree with you on this point. Lots of data shows that being introduced to more ideas can have a moderating effect. For instance, 70% of this nation's Mormons vote Republican. But polls have shown that their international missionary experiences tend to swing them to moderate Republicans. Are there still deep red Republicans in the Mormon faith? Yes. But when polls question them on their views on immigration it's much more moderate/liberal than compared to others who haven't traveled internationally.

However, how someone interacts with experiences is very personal. My wife is the only sibling (she is one of five) who votes Democrat. Her father was an aluminum worker and proud steel workers union member. He had a two year long lockout when my wife was 10-12 yo. She experienced the lockout very differently than her three older siblings, and her younger brother who can hardly remember it. She told me she votes Democrat because of how the lockout shaped her views on capitalism.

Did Cobb leave any memoires or journals that historians use when writing his biographies?

[Casey2296]

To put education in perspective at the time of Ty Cobb.

In 1910 less than 10% of Americans graduated high school.

College was for the elite. Less than 3 percent of the US population had a bachelor's degree in 1910.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by todeen

And I do agree with you on this point. Lots of data shows that being introduced to more ideas can have a moderating effect. For instance, 70% of this nation's Mormons vote Republican. But polls have shown that their international missionary experiences tend to swing them to moderate Republicans. Are there still deep red Republicans in the Mormon faith? Yes. But when polls question them on their views on immigration it's much more moderate/liberal than compared to others who haven't traveled internationally.

Interesting data point there!

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and having served a mission in Taiwan, I suspect those observations aren't far off. At the same time, I have some close acquaintances who are also of my faith, who are even married to immigrants, and yet are pretty strongly against immigration. Go figure!

But now we're getting a long ways away from Cobb.

I do think that there is room to question how much of an influence his father had considering his untimely death when Cobb was ~19 years old.

I'm not deep enough into the weeds to attempt to draw any conclusions here. But the author from the book that I read on Cobb did assert that it was meaningful in this context (and my subconscious generally concurred), which is why I mentioned it in the first place.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by todeen

I see what trail you were trying to take us down. Like how Indiana Jones father tried to influence him. I think if the evidence shows that Cobb's father took an active role in his life, than this could certainly be true.

And I do agree with you on this point. Lots of data shows that being introduced to more ideas can have a moderating effect. For instance, 70% of this nation's Mormons vote Republican. But polls have shown that their international missionary experiences tend to swing them to moderate Republicans. Are there still deep red Republicans in the Mormon faith? Yes. But when polls question them on their views on immigration it's much more moderate/liberal than compared to others who haven't traveled internationally.

However, how someone interacts with experiences is very personal. My wife is the only sibling (she is one of five) who votes Democrat. Her father was an aluminum worker and proud steel workers union member. He had a two year long lockout when my wife was 10-12 yo. She experienced the lockout very differently than her three older siblings, and her younger brother who can hardly remember it. She told me she votes Democrat because of how the lockout shaped her views on capitalism.

Did Cobb leave any memoires or journals that historians use when writing his biographies?

I'm not sure if Cobb left any additional memoirs or journals, but initially he worked with Stump on the original book, then once it was released and was full of BS he objected loudly, then unfortunately, passed away and the book was published as is.

I tend to view Cobb the same way I view Tris Speaker. They both softened and even completely turned around their viewpoints as they aged and ended as somewhat sympathetic figures at the end. Cobb being vocal about baseball integration, and Speaker mentoring Larry Doby and singing his praises.