Ty Cobb’s Legacy

[packs]

Cobb was not a racist. He was actually a very progressive guy and not at all like the caricature that was invented for him. Here is a quote from Cobb cited in the Independent Journal in January of 1952:

"Certainly it is O.K. for them to play," he said, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”

[Wanaselja]

There is nothing in the historical record to suggest Cobb was the racist of Stump’s novel. His father was an abolitionist as was his grandfather. Fierce competitor, yes. Fierce racist, no.

[Yoda]

Don't forget Cobb lived and played with the awful memory that his mother shot and killed his father, thinking that he was an intruder (maybe). I believe he spent his whole life, on and off the diamond, trying to show his father that he was a worthy son.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In 2010, an article by William R. Cobb (no relation to Ty) in the peer-reviewed The National Pastime, the official publication of the Society for American Baseball Research, accused Al Stump of extensive forgeries of Cobb-related baseball and personal memorabilia, including personal documents and diaries. Stump even falsely claimed to possess a shotgun used by Cobb's mother to kill his father (in a well-known 1905 incident officially ascribed to Mrs Cobb having mistaken her husband for an intruder). The shotgun later came into the hands of noted memorabilia collector Barry Halper. Despite the shotgun's notoriety, official newspaper and court documents of the time clearly show Cobb's father had been killed with a pistol. The article, and later expanded book,[5] further accused Stump of numerous false statements about Cobb, not only during and immediately after their 1961 collaboration, but also in Stump's later years, most of which were sensationalist in nature and intended to cast Cobb in an unflattering light.[1] Cobb's peer-reviewed research indicates that all of Stump's works (print and memorabilia) surrounding Ty Cobb are, at the very best, called into question and, at worst, "should be dismiss[ed] out of hand as untrue".[1]

[TRC4191]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 2010, an article by William R. Cobb (no relation to Ty) in the peer-reviewed The National Pastime, the official publication of the Society for American Baseball Research, accused Al Stump of extensive forgeries of Cobb-related baseball and personal memorabilia, including personal documents and diaries. Stump even falsely claimed to possess a shotgun used by Cobb's mother to kill his father (in a well-known 1905 incident officially ascribed to Mrs Cobb having mistaken her husband for an intruder). The shotgun later came into the hands of noted memorabilia collector Barry Halper. Despite the shotgun's notoriety, official newspaper and court documents of the time clearly show Cobb's father had been killed with a pistol. The article, and later expanded book,[5] further accused Stump of numerous false statements about Cobb, not only during and immediately after their 1961 collaboration, but also in Stump's later years, most of which were sensationalist in nature and intended to cast Cobb in an unflattering light.[1] Cobb's peer-reviewed research indicates that all of Stump's works (print and memorabilia) surrounding Ty Cobb are, at the very best, called into question and, at worst, "should be dismiss[ed] out of hand as untrue".[1]

After the 2010 SABR article was published https://sabr.org/journal/article/the...e-storyteller/, I added the results of some follow-on research and printed it in book form. This book can be read on line at https://issuu.com/ty_cobb/docs/the_g...storyteller_-2

In 2020, SABR selected this article "for inclusion in SABR 50 at 50: The Society for American Baseball Research’s Fifty Most Essential Contributions to the Game."

[Tomi]

Would be nice if Ken Burns dedicated a documentary on Cobb since his Baseball series put it out there that he was racist. How many young kids are going to watch that and see it as fact when it obviously wasn't? I'm sure many collectors chose not to collect him because of all the stuff said about him. It's the least he could do.

[Touch'EmAll]

From what I understand, history has been rough on Cobb.

His mom shot his dad when he was 18.

Yes, he could be nasty on the diamond during his playing days. And the reputation followed him through life.

He gave money to needy retired ballplayers. He funded a new hospital. He established a Foundation to assist deserving residents of Georgia who needed financial assistance for college educations.

Late in life, Cobb commented that if he had his life to live over again, "I would have done things a little different... I would have had more friends."

[LEHR]

The best book I've read yet on Cobb and written by his grandson. Highly recommended to anyone who has a negative opinion of Ty Cobb.

[G1911]

Stumps book might be the actual worst non-fiction volume I have ever read. Not only is it wrong and a load of garbage, the author just completely made it all up himself. It’s not poor sourcing, or a hot take that ruins it, but the very direct and intentional lies by the scumbag who wrote it.

Too much is made of how Cobb might fit into current political correctness, and not enough about the actual assault and batteries he did commit.

I am hard pressed to think of a non political figure who has been smeared by so many lies after his life as Cobb has.

Best player of his time. Possibly the second greatest hitter ever. He has a legitimate case for it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Stumps book might be the actual worst non-fiction volume I have ever read. Not only is it wrong and a load of garbage, the author just completely made it all up himself. It’s not poor sourcing, or a hot take that ruins it, but the very direct and intentional lies by the scumbag who wrote it.

Too much is made of how Cobb might fit into current political correctness, and not enough about the actual assault and batteries he did commit.

I am hard pressed to think of a non political figure who has been smeared by so many lies after his life as Cobb has.

Best player of his time. Possibly the second greatest hitter ever. He has a legitimate case for it.

Richard Ben Cramer really trashed DiMaggio, seemingly unfairly, in HIS book.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Richard Ben Cramer really trashed DiMaggio, seemingly unfairly, in HIS book.

Cramer, and it has been awhile since I read it, used poor sourcing and printed every bad thing he could find about DiMaggio. His book is in that genre of Seymour Hersh’s Dark Side of Camelot, the gossipy ‘print every bad thing and eye catching dramatic claim’. As I recall it, Cramer has not been shown to have completely made everything up himself. His book I would also classify as hot garbage, but it isn’t the same as Stump. Stump didn’t report what any random woman claimed had happened and failed to question it because it suited his purpose (many are guilty of this), but invented lies himself that he knew were lies because he made them up.

[Exhibitman]

From the interviews with his contemporaries that I've read it sounds like he was more misanthrope than anything else.

[robw1959]

He was actually, according to a well researched biography, a warm and friendly guy - even magnanimous to some extent. I can back that up by the fact that Cobb lobbied for Crawford to be elected to the Hall even though Crawford was envious of Cobb and not friendly toward him at all throughout their career together on the Tigers team. Cobb was also good friends with Honus Wagner as well as other well known players of his day. Yes, he was a fierce competitor, but was evidently able to leave those emotions on the field.

[Tomi]

Worth the read.
https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...acist.amp.html

[jingram058]

A lot of the myth surrounding Cobb is based on stupid made up BS that was started by one writer who hated him. I've always liked Cobb, and proud to own a baseball signed by him, Ruth and Gehrig.

[Hankphenom]

I think Larry Ritter's interviews in "The Glory of Their Times" provide a well-rounded picture of Cobb as told by his contemporaries. He had bad impulses and good impulses (especially later in life); could be loutish and paranoid or warm and gracious; was driven to win at all costs but not unfair how he went about it; Tried to beat the daylights out of some who had aggrieved him but helped thousands with his generosity; was neglectful of his training but kept in good enough shape to have been possibly the greatest player of all time over a 23-year career; had good friends and hunting buddies but also players, including long-time teammates, who didn't have a good word to say about him personally. Read, or better yet listen to, Sam Crawford and Davy Jones, who observed and interacted with Cobb so closely over such a long period, and you have to ask yourself if it really was just jealousy that had them painting such a dark picture of the man from a vantage point where most are willing to give some slack, if not completely forgive and forget? Well into their 80s, and they are still scathing and unrelenting in their assessments. I think it's great that more scholarly efforts are undoing the damage to his reputation done by Stump and other early chroniclers with a sensationalist agenda, and I hope we end up with a better rounded picture of a complex man who lived a complicated life. He deserves no less than an accurate portrayal.