After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?

[abothebear]

If you take the “should” out of it, and make an issue of what one wants, I wonder if that would clarify the discussion. It doesn’t need to be a matter of “should”. This isn’t the only place on the internet for hobbyists, and even if it was, it isn’t an institution of laws, or a convention of philosophers. Making it an issue of “should” elevates the matter higher than it belongs. This is a hobby site run by private individuals. What do the people here want to be the case in this matter? Maybe you like second chances, maybe you want the people that served the consequences for their actions to have earned a clean slate, maybe you just don’t want to mess with it, maybe you want these guys to go suck an egg. They’re all the same as far as “should” goes.

Like jingram058 said, “there is no right or wrong in this, it just is.”

What I want is to not mess with it. No hobby ex-fraudsters. If Leon wants to make individual exceptions, then there you go.

[Misunderestimated]

The word "hobbyist" seems a tad kind to me in this context. I think the more accurate (and generally less positive) term is dealer or seller. we are not generally talking about collectors when we talk about people who have been found guilty of business fraud and paid their societal dues for it. That doesn't mean that they don't know more about the hobby than many of us (self included) and can't contribute knowledge it's just a point that should be made...

After getting that off my chest --> I'm willing to give these "hobbyists" one strike (as Jay and then others wrote above) before banning them for good...
I don't think this is an option so I didn't answer the poll question.

Also can someone please post an appropriate card of someone who was suspended form baseball and came back after serving their suspension - maybe AROD ???

[pokerplyr80]

The card collecting community is a relatively small one. And this site is probably a relatively small percentage of the collecting community. It just seems to me if you committed a serious enough offense against others in the hobby to be convicted of fraud, you do not belong on this site. Or in the hobby at all for that matter.

I'm in favor of second chances in general. But why would we as a community want someone who committed fraud again others in the hobby on this site with a chance to do the same thing again to us? I just don't see much of a benefit, and I do see the potential for it to end very badly.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The card collecting community is a relatively small one. And this site is probably a relatively small percentage of the collecting community. It just seems to me if you committed a serious enough offense against others in the hobby to be convicted of fraud, you do not belong on this site. Or in the hobby at all for that matter.

I'm in favor of second chances in general. But why would we as a community want someone who committed fraud again others in the hobby on this site with a chance to do the same thing again to us? I just don't see much of a benefit, and I do see the potential for it to end very badly.

what jesse said

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

what jesse said

I also agree w Jesse. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The card collecting community is a relatively small one. And this site is probably a relatively small percentage of the collecting community. It just seems to me if you committed a serious enough offense against others in the hobby to be convicted of fraud, you do not belong on this site. Or in the hobby at all for that matter.

I'm in favor of second chances in general. But why would we as a community want someone who committed fraud again others in the hobby on this site with a chance to do the same thing again to us? I just don't see much of a benefit, and I do see the potential for it to end very badly.

And we've been through this with at least one member who was called out by another member for fraudulent ebay listings but he claimed it was his brother who had control of his ebay account and that he would never do something like that to the hobby he loved so he was allowed to stay. Fast forward a few years and he was caught again doing the same exact thing and again he denied it before finally admitting doing it on a much smaller scale than it actually was when undoubtable evidence was posted. It turned out he was also trying to sell some of them on the BST here.

Surprisingly some members still came to his defense maybe they're also some of the yes and I don't care votes in this thread.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

Also can someone please post an appropriate card of someone who was suspended form baseball and came back after serving their suspension - maybe AROD ???

The Boss was suspended, for what? Tampering with Dave Winfield was it? He came back, sure enough. This card is apparently from this year's Topps Heritage set (not mine, but it is an actual card).