Biggest MVP snubs ever

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Gary Carter may have been robbed of the '82 NL MVP too. He won the Gold Gold and Silver Slugger award with a .293 BA, slugged .510 (6th best) with 29 home runs (7th best) and led the League in WAR with 8.6. Yet he finished 12th in the vote.

The second highest WAR belonged to Andre Dawson (7.9) and he finished all the way back at 21st in the voting.

Dale Murphy won the MVP--he had a great year--36 HRs, and a league leading 109 RBI, but his WAR was only 6.1.

Sadly I do not believe Gary Carter was robbed of the NL MVP award. And you cannot only use WAR as the Stat. Dale had a great year as did Carter.
For 1 Gary Carter place 12th in voting (not 2 or 3 and not close)
Dale Murphy got 14 First place votes and Carter got 0.
Dale Murphy 36 HR, 109 RBI, and 113 Runs
Gary Carter 29 HR , 97 RBI , and 91 Runs

So hard to accept he got robbed when Dale had better stats, more 1st place voted (to no first place votes) and 11 other players were deemed more valuable that year than him

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Sadly I do not believe Gary Carter was robbed of the NL MVP award. And you cannot only use WAR as the Stat. Dale had a great year as did Carter.
For 1 Gary Carter place 12th in voting (not 2 or 3 and not close)
Dale Murphy got 14 First place votes and Carter got 0.
Dale Murphy 36 HR, 109 RBI, and 113 Runs
Gary Carter 29 HR , 97 RBI , and 91 Runs

So hard to accept he got robbed when Dale had better stats, more 1st place voted (to no first place votes) and 11 other players were deemed more valuable that year than him

I hear you but remember Carter did that from the catching position. When your team has a catcher that can hit like that he can be much more valuable than an outfielder with similar stats. Catchers are much harder to come by. Just ask the 2022 Mets.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I hear you but remember Carter did that from the catching position. When your team has a catcher that can hit like that he can be much more valuable than an outfielder with similar stats. Catchers are much harder to come by. Just ask the 2022 Mets.

i am not disputing the importance of a catching position but if 11 other players that year are all voted ahead of him by the "voters" of that time. They do not feel he was the #1 or #11. and they do not feel his importance of his position over shadowed those 11 others and the vote was not even close

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

i am not disputing the importance of a catching position but if 11 other players that year are all voted ahead of him by the "voters" of that time. They do not feel he was the #1 or #11. and they do not feel his importance of his position over shadowed those 11 others and the vote was not even close

That’s why they’re snubs and why the thread exists. For whatever reason the voters sometimes don’t like someone. Carter was not a negative personality by any means but I think he rubbed people the wrong way. I named my handle after him so I am biased here.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Sadly I do not believe Gary Carter was robbed of the NL MVP award. And you cannot only use WAR as the Stat. Dale had a great year as did Carter.
For 1 Gary Carter place 12th in voting (not 2 or 3 and not close)
Dale Murphy got 14 First place votes and Carter got 0.
Dale Murphy 36 HR, 109 RBI, and 113 Runs
Gary Carter 29 HR , 97 RBI , and 91 Runs

So hard to accept he got robbed when Dale had better stats, more 1st place voted (to no first place votes) and 11 other players were deemed more valuable that year than him

It's close for sure, but I don't think you can say Dale had better stats. Yes, he had more Home Runs, RBI and runs, but he had a lower batting average and lower slugging, lower OBP, and OPS. And its not every day a catcher wins the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger in the same year.

And I don't think you can look at who had the most first place votes to determine who deserved MVP. As this thread has shown, the voters don't always vote for the best or most valuable player.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

It's close for sure, but I don't think you can say Dale had better stats. Yes, he had more Home Runs, RBI and runs, but he had a lower batting average and lower slugging. And its not every day a catcher wins the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger in the same year.

And I don't think you can look at who had the most first place votes to determine who deserved MVP. As this thread has shown, the voters don't always vote for the best or most valuable player.

Murphy.281 vs Carter .293 batting average really close
Murphy .507 Carter vs .510 slugging real close

not enough of a difference to account for 11 people ahead of him.

Carter was well liked and respected so even if he was snubbed by some hard for me to believe he would be snubbed by all.

He was a deserving player like many of the others he just did not win it. Not sure how the voters of the day use position, team record, etc in there factoring.

But again we can agree to disagree and this is the beauty of this thread and forum

and I am a Carter Fan and I am a Met fan I was just looking at the numbers for stats, the number of players in the voting and in their positioning.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

It's close for sure, but I don't think you can say Dale had better stats. Yes, he had more Home Runs, RBI and runs, but he had a lower batting average and lower slugging, lower OBP, and OPS. And its not every day a catcher wins the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger in the same year.

And I don't think you can look at who had the most first place votes to determine who deserved MVP. As this thread has shown, the voters don't always vote for the best or most valuable player.

But in this case, even your hometown writers didn't vote you #1.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Deertick

But in this case, even your hometown writers didn't vote you #1.

Guy was buried on the Expos. I happen to love Expos history but they lacked the national attention other teams received. If Carter had that kind of a season on the Yankees probably would have gotten AL MVP and immediate induction into Cooperstown.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Guy was buried on the Expos. I happen to love Expos history but they lacked the national attention other teams received. If Carter had that kind of a season on the Yankees probably would have gotten AL MVP and immediate induction into Cooperstown.

That I cannot disagree with. As I mentioned I/We do not know the external factors in the voting and a small market team could be a disadvantage in the voting. Also having other worthy team mates can also dilute support for Gary Carter(Andrea Dawson was on the team and he batted .301 with 23 HR, 107 runs, 83 RBI and even stole 39 bases)

Another big factor for Dale might be TBS. Owned by Ted Turner all the Braves games were broadcast on that station while other games of your local team were not always. So the Braves and Murphy had National Exposure more than other players.

Regardless many worthy candidates but Dale Won.

[SteveWhite]

It is interesting no one has posted about Andre Dawson winning in 1987 for the last place Cubs. Cardinals won the East and the Giants won the West. The Mets and Expos each won over 90 games. Ozzie Smith or Will Clark not worthy candidates. From the voting it looks like Smith lost some votes to Jack Clark from his own team.

[G1911]

X won the MVP
Y did not win the MVP
X deserves the MVP over Y because he finished much higher in the vote.

The supposition is illogical, unless we conclude that the MVP voters are infallible. If rank in the MVP determines who actually deserved the MVP, every MVP vote has been correct and every single finish has always been in the correct order or close to the correct order. If we acknowledge that this is not the case, then the fact that X finished Z slots over Y is irrelevant.

Whether a player finished 1st, 12th, or 117th doesn’t logically matter because the question is who deserves the MVP, not who actually won.


I would pick Carter over Murphy that year, but I do not see any robbery here. Schmidt had a good case that year too.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Guy was buried on the Expos. I happen to love Expos history but they lacked the national attention other teams received. If Carter had that kind of a season on the Yankees probably would have gotten AL MVP and immediate induction into Cooperstown.

That didn't hurt his teammate Al Oliver who finished 3rd in MVP voting. It was more likely that the voters under valued defense. Oliver was the better offensive player, but a stiff on defense, while Carter was a gold glove winning catcher.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by rats60

That didn't hurt his teammate Al Oliver who finished 3rd in MVP voting. It was more likely that the voters under valued defense. Oliver was the better offensive player, but a stiff on defense, while Carter was a gold glove winning catcher.

very good point. Some how I forgot about Al Oliver.