ESPN Top 100

[iwantitiwinit]

Too high:

Bonds
Seaver
Henderson (way too high)
Clemente

Too low:

Bench

[Lobo Aullando]

I don't know on Henderson. I'm wondering if he's a few notches too low. He was terrifying because you knew if he got on -- and he did even more with that small strike zone -- it was like it was downhill the rest of the way to home plate. (Great if he's on your team, though.)

3,055 hits, 2,190 walks, and then 1,406 steals.

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Too high:

Bonds
Seaver
Henderson (way too high)
Clemente

Too low:

Bench

[nat]

"I don't think anyone thinks Schilling was a better baseball player than Dimaggio"

Nobody thinks he was, and WAR doesn't say that he was. WAR is a measure of value, not ability. If you want to measure ability you'll need something like WAR/PA or something like that. (Tricky here, since Schilling was a pitcher and DiMaggio was a position player.)

Anyway, by WAR they're tied in total career value. (The difference is less than one WAR, which is totally meaningless over the course of a player's career.) And the only reason that DiMaggio isn't ahead of Schilling is that his career was so short. He only played 13 years - or really only 12.5 since he missed half of 1949. If you want to give him any credit for the years he missed during the war, he'd pull way ahead.

The Trout rating is obviously based on some expectations of what he'll do in the future. I think it's pretty likely that he ends up being a top-20 player, although obviously he isn't there yet.

As for the rest of the list: it's so bad I'm just going to ignore it. Half of it looks like click-bait, and the other half looks like whoever put it together didn't bother to check the players' records (for example, check out how much daylight they put between Matty and Pete).

[RCMcKenzie]

I stand corrected, nat. I'm not familiar with war/pa, I'll have to check it out. I don't care for this espn list either, but it makes for fun conversation. I could argue Trout has only been the 2nd best player on a losing team his whole career. Pujols, Ohtani.

[Kidnapped18]

42 Nolan Ryan should be higher up towards the top for me

These three should be much lower towards bottom
11 Pedro Martinez
15 Mike Trout
28 Derek Jeter

No way am I putting these three ahead of some of the greats on this list

94 Bryce Harper doesn't make the cut for me

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

42 Nolan Ryan should be higher up towards the top for me

These three should be much lower towards bottom
11 Pedro Martinez

I'm curious about these two opinions. Based on what are you saying these guys should be moved?

For all his strikeouts and no-hitters, Ryan still finished his career with a 112 ERA+. He had an ERA+ under 100 nine different times in his career. Pedro, on the other hand, had an ERA+ of 154 and had an ERA+ under 100 just two times in his career. Besides those two, his next lowest for a season was 117. That's right - his third-worst ERA+ season was 5 points higher than Ryan's career total. Pedro won 3 Cy Youngs and was runner-up twice - Ryan was a runner-up once with no wins. Pedro once had an ERA - in a hitters' park in a steroid era - that was 3.17 runs below the league average.

So, again, what's the case for Ryan needing to be higher up to the top and, thus, many, many spots ahead of Pedro who should be "towards the bottom"?

[RCMcKenzie]

Chris, I agree, I have Martinez ahead of Ryan, but neither is in my top 50. To me, I saw Ryan many times and he was like Dave Kingman, he could have the best game you ever saw, or a really bad game.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I'm curious about these two opinions. Based on what are you saying these guys should be moved?

For all his strikeouts and no-hitters, Ryan still finished his career with a 112 ERA+. He had an ERA+ under 100 nine different times in his career. Pedro, on the other hand, had an ERA+ of 154 and had an ERA+ under 100 just two times in his career. Besides those two, his next lowest for a season was 117. That's right - his third-worst ERA+ season was 5 points higher than Ryan's career total. Pedro won 3 Cy Youngs and was runner-up twice - Ryan was a runner-up once with no wins. Pedro once had an ERA - in a hitters' park in a steroid era - that was 3.17 runs below the league average.

So, again, what's the case for Ryan needing to be higher up to the top and, thus, many, many spots ahead of Pedro who should be "towards the bottom"?

My favorite Pedro stat is that in 2000, he led the AL with an ERA of 1.74. The second lowest ERA in the entire American League was posted by Roger Clemens at.... 3.70. 1.96 full runs below Pedro. Pedro was twice as effective at not giving up runs as the second best pitcher.

Personally I don't Martinez hurled enough innings to rank #11 among players at all positions, but he was one dominating pitcher

[Robextend]

Bryce Harper over Eddie Murray, Lou Brock & Jeff Bagwell?? Eh

[shagrotn77]

Foxx and Trout should switch places.

[Belfast1933]

Am I the only one who counted how many of this top 100 I have in my own card collection?

Probably unimpressive compared to most of you… but I am 93 yup, 7 not yet.

[Carter08]

Spahn is the big omission for me of course. Not many baseball players with a career war over 100 and he’s on that list while giving up some prime years to WWII. Feels like he gets knocked for longevity sometimes. Easy to forget he led the league in WHIP a lot and threw two no-nos. Dominant.

[Kidnapped18]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I'm curious about these two opinions. Based on what are you saying these guys should be moved?

For all his strikeouts and no-hitters, Ryan still finished his career with a 112 ERA+. He had an ERA+ under 100 nine different times in his career. Pedro, on the other hand, had an ERA+ of 154 and had an ERA+ under 100 just two times in his career. Besides those two, his next lowest for a season was 117. That's right - his third-worst ERA+ season was 5 points higher than Ryan's career total. Pedro won 3 Cy Youngs and was runner-up twice - Ryan was a runner-up once with no wins. Pedro once had an ERA - in a hitters' park in a steroid era - that was 3.17 runs below the league average.

So, again, what's the case for Ryan needing to be higher up to the top and, thus, many, many spots ahead of Pedro who should be "towards the bottom"?

I think you misread me...when I said towards the bottom that was a direction not saying he should be at the bottom.
To me both pitchers are top 30 MLB all time for sure and I have cards of both

Pedro is not top 20 for me at all...I would move Rickey Henderson (my favorite ballplayer) into top 20 before Pedro

Ryan I believe still holds over 50 MLB records that is a big reason why I move him up...in addition he has over 100 wins and over 2500 strikeouts more than Pedro

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I stand corrected, nat. I'm not familiar with war/pa, I'll have to check it out. I don't care for this espn list either, but it makes for fun conversation. I could argue Trout has only been the 2nd best player on a losing team his whole career. Pujols, Ohtani.

There is no way on earth Pujols on the Angels was remotely close to Trout. No one seriously disputes Trout has been the best player in baseball since he came up in 2011.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is no way on earth Pujols on the Angels was remotely close to Trout. No one seriously disputes Trout has been the best player in baseball since he came up in 2011.

I agree Trout was better on the Angels. Life time it will be Pujols and the numbers really won't be that close. In my opinion anyway.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I agree Trout was better on the Angels. Life time it will be Pujols and the numbers really won't be that close. In my opinion anyway.

Pujols on St. Louis was MASSIVE. A phenomenon. The second half of his career he was average to mediocre and hitting behind Trout pumped up his counting numbers.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Too high:

Bonds
Seaver
Henderson (way too high)
Clemente

Too low:

Bench

Seaver is too low. Should be ahead of Clemons, Maddox and Pedro.

[Ricky]

No George Sisler, Al Simmons or Mickey Cochrane. What other egregious misses?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Too high:

Bonds
Seaver
Henderson (way too high)
Clemente

Too low:

Bench

Seaver too high? Think again. One of only TWO…..yes TWO pitchers who ever won 300+ games (311); struck out 3,000+ batters (3,640); and post a sub-3.00 ERA (2.86). Walter Johnson being the other. Ranked #7 lifetime in WAR among all pitchers & #6 in JAWS (Jaffe System combining best peak 7 years & longevity). Lifetime .603 winning percentage is roughly 100 points superior to his teams Winning % & he posted 231 complete games and 61 shoutouts. Hitters posted a measly .226 lifetime batting average against Seaver - an amazing statistic. Pedro Martinez being # 11 is a complete joke - not Seaver being #22.