New Ebay Authentication service

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

I saw this being discussed on the Blowout forums but wanted to get the discussion going here.

Ebay appears to be offering a trading card authentication service for any card with a value of $750. Doesn't look like they actually grade it, just confirm it's authentic.

It appears the seller ships the card to eBay, they authenticate it, and then they ship it to the buyer.

Ineresting.

Here's the link:

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-...e-tradingcards

[butchie_t]

No way I trust eBay to do this. I have enough trust issues as it is now.

[Bigdaddy]

Very interesting. And it looks like this will happen to all cards over $750 automatically, without any buyer choice in the matter.

My son used to buy/sell sneakers several years ago and there were 'middle men' who performed this service for a fee. When he sold a pair online, he'd box them up and send them to a guy for a 'legit check'. There was a fee for this service (~$20 if I remember) and an additional shipping charge, but the guy would check to see that the sneakers matched the photos/description and that they were not counterfeit. Fake sneakers are a thing.

We'll see how this plays out and if it carries any weight after the initial sale. Interesting model, especially with it being done at no extra cost. Though somebody is paying.

[canjond]

Just read the blurb and it sounds like that if you have the option to use the service and chose not to and the seller has a no return policy, the policy will be enforced and you can't return a purchase. It also sounds like it will be free for a while (the description states "eBay covers all the costs associated with the authentication process for a limited time"), and then they will start charging. So, it sounds like you essentially will have to pay eBay to authenticate your card, or otherwise void the return.

[Natswin2019]

Not sure how this will work in practice but I dont hate the idea. It seems like a smart move on Ebay's part. Plus they are using CCG and their affiliates to do the authenticating which also seems like a good idea on paper at least too me.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

I'm still trying to wade through the FAQ and figure out how it all works.

It says it's a free service to buyers, but I'm guessing the seller has to "opt in"? Not sure if that costs money? Also, out of curiosity, I started a test listing of an expensive trading card, and I DON'T see the option to offer this service on my listing...maybe they can only authenticate cards of certain sets? (my example was a w517 Ruth).

Also appears to ONLY be for raw cards. If it's graded, they won't "re-authenticate" it.

I wonder what the turnaround time is?

Very strange.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Natswin2019

Not sure how this will work in practice but I dont hate the idea. It seems like a smart move on Ebay's part. Plus they are using CCG and their affiliates to do the authenticating which also seems like a good idea on paper at least too me.

VOLUME. PSA shut down for a year effectively based on submissions in one week. Not sure how any company can attempt to hire all the people needed to receive, unbox, log, message, authenticate, sleeve, box, ship, etc. This is a great idea, but will be terrible.

[egri]

They started something similar with watches a while back (I believe the threshold was $2,000).

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Very interesting. And it looks like this will happen to all cards over $750 automatically, without any buyer choice in the matter.

My son used to buy/sell sneakers several years ago and there were 'middle men' who performed this service for a fee. When he sold a pair online, he'd box them up and send them to a guy for a 'legit check'. There was a fee for this service (~$20 if I remember) and an additional shipping charge, but the guy would check to see that the sneakers matched the photos/description and that they were not counterfeit. Fake sneakers are a thing.

We'll see how this plays out and if it carries any weight after the initial sale. Interesting model, especially with it being done at no extra cost. Though somebody is paying.

eBay has been doing it with sneakers for a while. They recently bought the company that authenticated them for eBay. It is/was free for all sneakers $100 and over.

[BobC]

So I wonder what happens the first time someone buys one of these "authenticated" cards off Ebay, and they send it in to a TPG who comes back that it is fake?

You all know it is eventually going to happen.

And Ebay is only going to verify authenticity, right? So nothing about trimming, recoloring, removing creases, etc.?

[BobbyStrawberry]

From the seller perspective, this seems to me just another headache.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

From the seller perspective, this seems to me just another headache.

With sneakers the biggest problem is the extra time it takes to get your purchase. Can easily be a month from purchase date till you receive them.

On the flip side I have bought 2 pair of fake Nike off eBay before the change and now you see way less fakes listed.

[mrreality68]

Looks like potentially a good concept in the short term however depending on the cost after the limited time it might just be another way for eBay to make more money

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

VOLUME. PSA shut down for a year effectively based on submissions in one week. Not sure how any company can attempt to hire all the people needed to receive, unbox, log, message, authenticate, sleeve, box, ship, etc. This is a great idea, but will be terrible.

yep, this is pretty much it

[chadeast]

Who is the authenticator? What if they say a card is real when it's actually a fake? Will the buyer then lose their ability to return it? I'm guessing they will, sure that's part of what Ebay is trying to clean up. This is fraught with problems, not to mention the inevitable backlog and delay. Perhaps the part I like the least is that some middle man (?) will be handling the card. No bueno.

[keithsky]

Yeah eBay, the company that has more fake items on their website than any other company in the world and refuses to pull fake items now wants to authenticate. Now that is hilarious.

[brianclat11]

Originally Posted by chadeast

Who is the authenticator? What if they say a card is real when it's actually a fake? Will the buyer then lose their ability to return it? I'm guessing they will, sure that's part of what Ebay is trying to clean up. This is fraught with problems, not to mention the inevitable backlog and delay. Perhaps the part I like the least is that some middle man (?) will be handling the card. No bueno.

CSG will be the authenticator..

[Tao_Moko]

This could theoretically put a big dent in reducing fraud. As said before the volume is an issue. Simply authenticating is faster than grading but the logistics are still monstrous. Huge delays ahead.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Looks like potentially a good concept in the short term however depending on the cost after the limited time it might will just be another way for eBay to make more money

I'm pretty sure making more money was the driving force behind their decision.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Looks like potentially a good concept in the short term however depending on the cost after the limited time it might just be another way for eBay to make more money

It depends on IF they ever decide to charge for the service. In sneakers it has said "FREE for a limited time" for a year so far.

[NYYFan63]

It’s sent to a 3rd party authenticator, not ebay. Same thing with watches as someone else mentioned above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Popcorn]

They are doing this because they have a 3 day return policy for cards and a lot of people can’t tell if it’s fake without sending to psa ect.

Imo they should have a 3 day return for graded cards and a 30-90 day return for raw cards so folks can have them looked at to ensure it’s authentic.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'm pretty sure making more money was the driving force behind their decision.

ALWAYS!

we need a card...
from the BST recently
.

[53toppscollector]

ebay's end game here is to obviously offer some kind of service where if you buy a card and it gets sent for authentication, you can just add on $20-25 to have it graded too.

I get that they want to try and eliminate fakes. But can you imagine the headache of buying a raw card for $300 on ebay on March 1st, and that card gets sent to CSG and sits there for 6 months in a backlog waiting to be authenticated?

it feels like ebay is just trying to drive as many people off the platform as possible by making things more complicated and convoluted.

[whiteymet]

OK, so I buy a card on ebay. It is sent to their authenticator. They say it is good. I get the card, submit it to PSA and it comes back as fake. Then what?

[Exhibitman]

This is loony tunes on so many levels.

Three years ago a card over $750 would have gone to PSA and been back in 30-60-ish days, or SGC in even less. Selling it raw on eBay would have been a non-starter. With PSA effectively out of business selling expensive raw cards has become a real thing, I guess. And so many more cards are expensive now; lower grade T206 HOF portraits are going to four figures.

The USPS has been a shit show since that asswipe took it over. You really want to have an expensive card go through the USPS multiple times? How many orders are going to have to be undone when the USPS loses or wrecks the package? And who bears that risk? I have a sneaky suspicion it won't be eBay or the buyer. Can you say "mandatory shipping insurance, which eBay will gladly provide, for a fee"?



How on earth can CSG promise a quick turnaround on a card when it takes them 1-2 months to turn around a standard order? What will that do to the patient customers who are waiting for their cards now?

What is CSG going to do with the vast array of cards it does not grade? How will they authenticate a Babe Ruth Exhibit when they don't even grade them?

Last of all, this mandate with a limited time free means eventually it will be a cost someone eats. Probably the seller because that's what eBay always does. They are as bad as Lexis. Any time those pirates call my office to "work with you to lower your legal research bill" I know I will end up paying more.

The only people who will benefit from this are the auction houses. Every layer of complexity and expense that eBay layers on just pushes more business to the AHs. Selling a card already costs me 10% of the sale price plus 3% of the sum of the sale price, the shipping, and the tax (yeah, eBay charges a transaction fee on shipping and tax). A few more points and we are at auction house pricing, and I don't need to deal with the fulfillment headaches of cards I consign, just mail 'em in ad pick up the check.

Just don't know what else to say except...

[jayshum]

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

[iwantitiwinit]

Buying puts on ebay today this bs they are pulling is out of control. What happens when you send the card in for authentication, it's authenticated then gets lost when shipped from the authentication point to the buyer. Who is responsible? Also, no way they keep up with volumes, no way.

[hcv123]

I do not think this is a money grab. As has been highlighted by all the "Ebay outed auctions" of clear fakes here on Net 54 - fakes have proliferated for years with likely unsuspecting buyers getting burned. An authentication process for higher value cards makes a lot of sense in instilling confidence for buyers that they are not getting burned with a fake card and are covered if they do.

Questions, as have been raised in this thread, will have to be answered in practice over time - 1) timing - I imagine would be exponentially faster to deem authenticity rather than grade - caveat - does the authenticity guarantee no alterations and what is considered an alteration?
2) cost - time will tell 3) Is CSG the right choice or the new kid on the block willing to work for Ebay's offer to try to gain some market recognition.

For now, I like the concept.

Edited to add:

In reading through the FAQ's - I see 1 potential red herring - part of the "authentication" - they are going to match the card to the condition description:

https://pages.ebay.com/cardconditions/

and if those condition definitions are from CSG, then I have a clearer picture of why I will not touch their cards with a 10 foot pole!

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

ebay's end game here is to obviously offer some kind of service where if you buy a card and it gets sent for authentication, you can just add on $20-25 to have it graded too.

This has long-term potential. Ebay could negotiate a grading rate with the major TPGs. When purchasing any card that meets the dollar threshold amount, the buyer could have the option to have the card graded. The options would include the specific grading company and cost.

Once the buyer selects the option and chooses the grading company, the buyer immediately pays Ebay. Ebay obviously keeps a small fee for securing the service on the TPG's behalf, and then sends the remaining money to the TPG. The seller mails the card directly to the TPG.

The TPG then grades the card and sends it directly to the buyer. Ebay makes a small fee off of the TPG grading fee, because it has the card supply and helped secure the TPG's business.

The TPG makes money, because it now is potentially grading cards it otherwise wouldn't. I think a buyer is more likely to have a raw card graded if everything is done upfront, as opposed to receiving the card and then submitting it themselves to the TPG several months later.

The card's buyer benefits on two fronts. The first is the shipping. The seller is the one shipping to the TPG. Today, a buyer pays shipping to his house from the ebay, shipping to the grader, and then return shipping. Under my scenario, the buyer just pays shipping to and from the TPG with the seller being the one that actually sends it to the TPG. Plus, the buyer is ultimately getting a graded card back quicker than if he submitted it himself down the road.

I know there are a lot of other factors, but I think if done correctly everyone wins - Ebay, the TPGs, and the buyer.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

This has long-term potential. Ebay could negotiate a grading rate with the major TPGs. When purchasing any card that meets the dollar threshold amount, the buyer could have the option to have the card graded. The options would include the specific grading company and cost.

Once the buyer selects the option and chooses the grading company, the buyer immediately pays Ebay. Ebay obviously keeps a small fee for securing the service on the TPG's behalf, and then sends the remaining money to the TPG. The seller mails the card directly to the TPG.

The TPG then grades the card and sends it directly to the buyer. Ebay makes a small fee off of the TPG grading fee, because it has the card supply and helped secure the TPG's business.

The TPG makes money, because it now is potentially grading cards it otherwise wouldn't. I think a buyer is more likely to have a raw card graded if everything is done upfront, as opposed to receiving the card and then submitting it themselves to the TPG several months later.

The card's buyer benefits on two fronts. The first is the shipping. The seller is the one shipping to the TPG. Today, a buyer pays shipping to his house from the ebay, shipping to the grader, and then return shipping. Under my scenario, the buyer just pays shipping to and from the TPG with the seller being the one that actually sends it to the TPG. Plus, the buyer is ultimately getting a graded card back quicker than if he submitted it himself down the road.

I know there are a lot of other factors, but I think if done correctly everyone wins - Ebay, the TPGs, and the buyer.

As of now Ebay has chosen to work with CSG - In my experience their graded cards have little resale/market respect. With more work than they can handle, why would PSA or SGC jump on board? If they did, then I am 1000% with you. Till something changes, I wouldn't want a CSG graded card.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by jayshum

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

Oh boy, interesting find Jay. That seller has few other dubious looking listings as well (a couple 52 bowman mantles, and a "graded" 52 Topps Mays from a unknown grading company).

They have all fake warning signs...even corner rounding, artificial aging, a little crackle effect, and just something that looks a little "off" about them in general.

I'd love to see a follow-up on what the eBay authenticators rule when these cards arrive for authentication.

[Exhibitman]

If you haven't already, go to the link of the Paige and click on the Learn More link in the box describing the service. You can see what they are going for: a bypass entirely of the slabbing regime. The card comes back in a Card Saver with a sticker (like what Beckett used to do (does?)) with its QR code and in a cardboard display easel you can fold out and put on a desk. Looks tailor made for the newbie and casual collector who is the most likely victim of a fake card scam and who doesn't really know or want to have his nephew's Bar Mitzvah present graded and encapsulated.

My guess is that from eBay's perspective, paying the cost for CSG to look at the card and slap a sticker on it or reject it is more cost-effective than paying off burned collectors and trying to get repayment from scammers for all of the high-dollar fakes out there.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

OK, so I buy a card on ebay. It is sent to their authenticator. They say it is good. I get the card, submit it to PSA and it comes back as fake. Then what?

you make a case with your credit card company or pay pal or both. It's a cluster F.

How about the 95% listed Fake Mantle Autographs going there for authentication?

[steve B]

"In the unlikely event that your card is damaged in transit, you can still open a return request within the seller’s return window and get a refund, or within three days if the item is final sale."

So if the third party screws up the packaging or something else goes wrong....
It's on you.

No thanks!

[D. Bergin]

Damn, I can see a lot of "Card Not Received" claims coming in, the second the authenticater gets backed up in submissions.

I don't see anything good coming out of this, and likely will lead to even higher seller fees, so Ebay can recoup their share of this scheme......+ a little off the top.

[Snowman]

While I'm not excited about this for my own purchases (I don't need help with identifying fakes), I do understand the Haider market need for such a service. There are a lot of fakes out there, and it's only going to get worse. And eBay has zero ability to make fair rulings on these transactions when buyers file a complaint. They really do need an expert 3rd party to partner with. But this is going to be a big hassle for modern collectors. I buy a fair number of raw ultra modern NBA cards that are over $750. Cards that are not faked as they are new releases. That would be pretty annoying if they plan to "authenticate" new release cards.

As far as CSG goes, I think it makes sense that they partnered with them. The hobby might not like their slabs, but they're definitely capable and are well funded and backed by the same owners as Fanatics. And given all the ambitions of Fanatics, I would expect to see them integrate CSG grading services through multiple different channels.

[Flintboy]

What kind of headache does this cause the breakers like Greg Morris and the likes?

[Exhibitman]

I guess you slab your expensive cards and sell the rest raw.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

What kind of headache does this cause the breakers like Greg Morris and the likes?

By "breakers", I take it you mean set breakers like Greg Morris on ebay as opposed to box and case breakers? I doubt it would have much of an effect on them. Instead of shipping to address A, they're now just shipping to address B instead.

It may have an effect on the broader market prices though in general, as this will undoubtedly turn both buyers and sellers off on eBay. People will be seeking out alternative selling platforms. There's a lot of opportunity for new players to come along in this market right now. I'm excited for what lies ahead. I'm envisioning entirely new platforms and resources for buying, selling, storing, grading, trading, organizing, tracking, etc. Will be interesting to see it all unfold. I'm also interested in how market prices will be affected as more and more transactions migrate away from eBay. Right now, eBay is pretty much THE comp tool which effectively dictates current market prices (with some exceptions for high end vintage or super low pop cards). But price suppression could result if eBay ever starts losing significant volume to other platforms. Especially if there are a plethora of other platforms to choose from, each of which has their own niche following (and therefore fewer eyes on each listing on average). Fewer eyes = lower selling prices. So even if the same number of cards are sold per year in this hobby, the average selling price will go down in proportion to the number of different selling platforms there are that gain significant traction in the market.

[Snowman]

Ultimately, this service will be paid for by the buyers and sellers. Buyers might be willing to pay more for a card that otherwise looks questionable because they won't have to risk whether it's fake or not. In those cases, the expense will ultimately be covered by the buyer being willing to pay more for the card, and thus for the service. However, for cards where it's pretty obvious that it's not a fake, and where buyers aren't really all that interested in getting it authenticated, then it'll be the sellers who end up eating the costs as the buyers won't be willing to pay more for it. And while ebay claims it is a "free service" for now, we all know that's bullshit. Someone had to pay for it, and it's not going to be ebay. Whether that comes through in the form of higher selling fees or an actual itemized separate line item fee is yet to be seen, but sellers will definitely be the ones who get stuck with the bill.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by hcv123

As of now Ebay has chosen to work with CSG - In my experience their graded cards have little resale/market respect. With more work than they can handle, why would PSA or SGC jump on board? If they did, then I am 1000% with you. Till something changes, I wouldn't want a CSG graded card.

Aren't they just going for authentification though, and not actual grading? If so, I don't think the resale aspect is all that important/applicable. However, can see the respect aspect maybe playing a part in whether or not people can trust them to accurately be able to authenticate cards.

I think the biggest factor in how this may play out is the as yet unanswered question that myself, and others, have already voiced elsewhere in this thread, what happens when a card/item is authenticated by this new Ebay authentication service, but is later rejected as a fake when the buyer sends it in to a TPG for actual grading? Especially if it can take months, or over a year, after submitting to a TPG for the seller to find out the card/item is no good after all, but it is now way past the normal return policy parameters, or credit card claim dispute filing deadlines.

I'm waiting for the day someone starts a class action type suit against a selling platform, like Ebay, for something like this. If this is something Ebay is going to push, I can't see them effectively transferring the total liability for potential mistakes like that onto just a third party authenticator, like CSG.

[GeoPoto]

[QUOTE=Snowman;2190534]Ultimately, this service will be paid for by the buyers and sellers.

What you say makes sense, but don't you think eBay hopes that it will be covered by reduced expenses adjudicating/policing bad actors and thereby allow higher-dollar, ungraded cards to continue being sold on eBay in a way that is profitable for eBay.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[D. Bergin]

[QUOTE=GeoPoto;2190930]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ultimately, this service will be paid for by the buyers and sellers.

What you say makes sense, but don't you think eBay hopes that it will be covered by reduced expenses adjudicating/policing bad actors and thereby allow higher-dollar, ungraded cards to continue being sold on eBay in a way that is profitable for eBay.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

No,

Sorry, but have you paid attention to Ebay at any point in the last 20 years? They charge a final value fee on Sales Tax and VAT tax collection. Not a merchant fee for the processing of money portion of the sale.....but a full final value fee...same percentage as what you pay for the actual sold item.

If they could figure out how to kick everybody's mother down the stairs to make an extra nickel per transaction for their bottom line...they would.

[Snowman]

[QUOTE=GeoPoto;2190930]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ultimately, this service will be paid for by the buyers and sellers.

What you say makes sense, but don't you think eBay hopes that it will be covered by reduced expenses adjudicating/policing bad actors and thereby allow higher-dollar, ungraded cards to continue being sold on eBay in a way that is profitable for eBay.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Yes, ultimately, I think this addresses at least some of what eBay hopes to accomplish through this program. I think they are hoping it helps to cut costs for adjudicating/policing bad actors. Which is probably why they're willing to eat the costs initially. But this is still ebay. They will eventually transfer the cost burden over to the sellers.

I think this is a miscalculation on their part though. I think this will ultimately end up costing them more than it will save them. People aren't going to like it.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Yeah eBay, the company that has more fake items on their website than any other company in the world and refuses to pull fake items now wants to authenticate. Now that is hilarious.

I think this is a way for ebay to reduce those fake items. If seller knows the cards will go through an authentication process then they will stop listing fakes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Jobu]

I agree that they are likely doing this because they think it will be cheaper than what they currently lose to fraud. I also think that it will end up costing much more than what they lose to fraud because it will drive people to sell high dollar cards elsewhere - it isn't as if there is a shortage of electronic platforms to use.

I also wonder what happens when someone buys a Jordan rookie in a fake PSA flip, the TPG gives it the thumbs up, and the buyer then sends it to PSA for a reholder to be told it is fake.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I do not think this is a money grab. As has been highlighted by all the "Ebay outed auctions" of clear fakes here on Net 54 - fakes have proliferated for years with likely unsuspecting buyers getting burned. An authentication process for higher value cards makes a lot of sense in instilling confidence for buyers that they are not getting burned with a fake card and are covered if they do.

Questions, as have been raised in this thread, will have to be answered in practice over time - 1) timing - I imagine would be exponentially faster to deem authenticity rather than grade - caveat - does the authenticity guarantee no alterations and what is considered an alteration?
2) cost - time will tell 3) Is CSG the right choice or the new kid on the block willing to work for Ebay's offer to try to gain some market recognition.

For now, I like the concept.

Edited to add:

In reading through the FAQ's - I see 1 potential red herring - part of the "authentication" - they are going to match the card to the condition description:

https://pages.ebay.com/cardconditions/

and if those condition definitions are from CSG, then I have a clearer picture of why I will not touch their cards with a 10 foot pole!

Well said Howard.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by jayshum

This listing has the Authenticity Guarantee indication. Odds it's authentic?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32500646135...YAAOSwwC9h6Nfu

Currently with 63 bids - with they authenticate the shill bids as well?


Just wondering.

[conor912]

Getting in bed with a company like ebay is a major boon for a company like CSG. My guess is ebay cards will be expedited through their system while their normal subs get shoved aside. I wouldn’t be surprised if eBay is interested in an in-house grading sercice and they looking at purchase opportunities.