Restored Honus Wagner at SCP Auctions

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Thanks, I had someone ask does the philosophy work the other way around (make the consignors happy and you will make the bidders happy) Maybe in the sense that you might attract better consignments which might make bidders happy, but other than that I don't think it works both ways. That being said my fiduciary duty IS to the consignor, I just think the best way to serve them is to not have bidders questioning our integrity!

Maybe PT Barnum was right, but it's hard for me to see how any strategies that involve attempting to fool or manipulate bidders will benefit AHs or their consignors in the long run. Perhaps the demand for stuff is inelastic, as an economist would put it, and impervious to any of the normal restraints of the free market. But I would still want some proof that the smarter approach overall isn't to treat bidders with the respect they deserve as the ones who ultimately foot the bill.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Maybe PT Barnum was right, but it's hard for me to see how any strategies that involve attempting to fool or manipulate bidders will benefit AHs or their consignors in the long run. Perhaps the demand for stuff is inelastic, as an economist would put it, and impervious to any of the normal restraints of the free market. But I would still want some proof that the smarter approach overall isn't to treat bidders with the respect they deserve as the ones who ultimately foot the bill.

FWIW, the fact that the major auction houses (e.g., Sothebys, Christies, etc.) across all fields of collecting employ the method of hidden reserves with the house being allowed to secretly bid up to the reserve, suggests to me this method works in achieving the highest prices. That it might piss off some bidders who will therefore not bid is more than offset by the higher prices it generates among those bidders who participate. Conceptually it makes sense it would work, as it reduces the number of bidders required to achieve the desired price from two to one.

In regard to the demand curve, for the most desirable items it is very inelastic. Because of that, bidders who really want the item will knowingly choose to take the bait and bid, fearing that, even though unlikely, if there is that "real" second bidder, they will have no chance of buying the item after the auction.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

FWIW, the fact that the major auction houses (e.g., Sothebys, Christies, etc.) across all fields of collecting employ the method of hidden reserves with the house being allowed to secretly bid up to the reserve, suggests to me this method works in achieving the highest prices. That it might piss off some bidders who will therefore not bid is more than offset by the higher prices it generates among those bidders who participate. Conceptually it makes sense it would work, as it reduces the number of bidders required to achieve the desired price from two to one.

In regard to the demand curve, for the most desirable items it is very inelastic. Because of that, bidders who really want the item will knowingly choose to take the bait and bid, fearing that, even though unlikely, if there is that "real" second bidder, they will have no chance of buying the item after the auction.

The end result it is there in most Auction Houses. WE have the options both where to consign or sell our cards and we have options on where to buy or bid on cards.

There are some Auctions Houses I prefer to deal with and others I prefer to attempt to avoid. But if the Right Card that I want or need is available I might need to bid/buy from an Auction House I would prefer not to. But Again I have the choice.

Most of the cards I ever bought or sold never had a reserve (that I knew of) so it was not as much a factor (but what I do not know I do not know)

[Rhotchkiss]

3 Days left and the Wagner still sits at $1mm with buyer's premium, which is where the card sat after the first day (has not moved since it opened) and is a mere half of the estimate. It ain't over until the until its over, but its starting to look like this Wagner will be a flop.

As a Wagner owner, I would love to see this restored "A" get over $2mm. As a realist, however, I think it tops $1.3mm max.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

3 Days left and the Wagner still sits at $1mm with buyer's premium, which is where the card sat after the first day (has not moved since it opened) and is a mere half of the estimate. It ain't over until the until its over, but its starting to look like this Wagner will be a flop.

As a Wagner owner, I would love to see this restored "A" get over $2mm. As a realist, however, I think it tops $1.3mm max.

The ugly PSA 7 Goudey Ruth has also had zero bids in that time. And I'm not surprised in the least.

[mrreality68]

Regarding the Wagner it may not sell for a lot more.
But with 11 bids in it only needs 2 people to get into a bidding war and the price jumps fast. But I am unsure which way it goes. I am thinking $1.5 million

Regarding the Ruth 7 I agree it is ugly for a 7. And it has not moved much but at its current price new money coming into the bidding may look more at the Grade then at the eye appeal.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Regarding the Wagner it may not sell for a lot more.
But with 11 bids in it only needs 2 people to get into a bidding war and the price jumps fast. But I am unsure which way it goes. I am thinking $1.5 million

Regarding the Ruth 7 I agree it is ugly for a 7. And it has not moved much but at its current price new money coming into the bidding may look more at the Grade then at the eye appeal.

It's ugly for a 1. I think the seller has already done well, even if there are no more bids. This must be a Registry thing, as hard as it is for me to wrap my mind around that. I could buy half a dozen Ruth #144s today that look a lot better than this card for under $30k each. There are plenty out there. I’ll never understand, but I’m ok with that.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

FWIW, the fact that the major auction houses (e.g., Sothebys, Christies, etc.) across all fields of collecting employ the method of hidden reserves with the house being allowed to secretly bid up to the reserve, suggests to me this method works in achieving the highest prices. That it might piss off some bidders who will therefore not bid is more than offset by the higher prices it generates among those bidders who participate. Conceptually it makes sense it would work, as it reduces the number of bidders required to achieve the desired price from two to one. In regard to the demand curve, for the most desirable items it is very inelastic. Because of that, bidders who really want the item will knowingly choose to take the bait and bid, fearing that, even though unlikely, if there is that "real" second bidder, they will have no chance of buying the item after the auction.

You are undoubtedly correct in all of this, because for most collectors, "stuff trumps everything." I would point out that lots of other morally questionable business practices are also quite successful for the sellers, and from time to time laws are enacted to stop them. Endless discussions here have addressed which cross the line in our hobby and and which don't, with much outrage expressed regarding the former. For me, as I said, any selling strategy that involves keeping bidders in the dark does cross that line. The fact that most AHs employ those strategies and buyers continue to patronize them doesn't change my opinion in the least.

[atx840]

12th bid came in on the Wags.

Current Bid: $919,005

[babraham]

Originally Posted by atx840

12th bid came in on the Wags.

Current Bid: $919,005

Less than a day left now...it's got a ways to go to hit their $2m+ estimate.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by babraham

Less than a day left now...it's got a ways to go to hit their $2m+ estimate.

Agreed the clock is ticking and it will be interesting to see.

Either way I think the seller should be very happy with what he gets

[ullmandds]

$919,000...a reasonable price for such an ugly card.


I'm relieved...I was hypothesizing the easiest way to eat a t206...maybe vitamix it and put it in a smoothie???