Joe Jackson and Pete Rose Should Be HOFers Because...

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by BobC

Forget the story, Cobb's apparent choice to hit singles instead of going for home runs I felt was the biggest counter to the earlier poster's argument that home runs were so much more important than singles. I'm not saying that homers aren't more important than singles (just not at the disparity that that earlier poster seemed to imply) or that Cobb could have ever come close to hitting home runs like Ruth did. Just saying that he's one huge proponent for singles still meaning something pretty important to the game, and to therefore not discount them so quickly, even when compared to home runs.

It should be noted that Cobb's offensive style was to get on base and then use his aggressiveness, brains, and unpredictability to not only manufacture runs, but distract the pitcher and defense into making mistakes. A single is a single.... unless it was Cobb.

Nobody else in baseball history was able to weaponize a single like Ty Cobb.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It should be noted that Cobb's offensive style was to get on base and then use his aggressiveness, brains, and unpredictability to not only manufacture runs, but distract the pitcher and defense into making mistakes. A single is a single.... unless it was Cobb.

Nobody else in baseball history was able to weaponize a single like Ty Cobb.

Rickey Henderson.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It should be noted that Cobb's offensive style was to get on base and then use his aggressiveness, brains, and unpredictability to not only manufacture runs, but distract the pitcher and defense into making mistakes. A single is a single.... unless it was Cobb.

Nobody else in baseball history was able to weaponize a single like Ty Cobb.

Just saw before I hit submit that Peter beat me to it. Add in walks for Rickey too.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Just saw before I hit submit that Peter beat me to it. Add in walks for Rickey too.

Rickey (and Brock, and Wills) would use their raw speed and technique to turn singles into doubles (and maybe triples.) What Cobb did was more psychological - delayed steals, taking the unexpected extra base, sliding hard (clean, but hard,) and generally keeping the other team wound up tight, wondering what he would do next.

Henderson was a truly great player and play maker. His talent on the bases was speed and technique. You knew he was running. With Cobb, it was different - you never knew just what he would do next, or when, or how.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Rickey (and Brock, and Wills) would use their raw speed and technique to turn singles into doubles (and maybe triples.) What Cobb did was more psychological - delayed steals, taking the unexpected extra base, sliding hard (clean, but hard,) and generally keeping the other team wound up tight, wondering what he would do next.

Henderson was a truly great player and play maker. His talent on the bases was speed and technique. You knew he was running. With Cobb, it was different - you never knew just what he would do next, or when, or how.

I dunno, pitchers talk a lot about how disruptive Henderson was on base. I think the idea of all that effort to hold him, and the full knowledge that he was going anyway had to make things considerably easier for whoever was batting after him.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I dunno, pitchers talk a lot about how disruptive Henderson was on base. I think the idea of all that effort to hold him, and the full knowledge that he was going anyway had to make things considerably easier for whoever was batting after him.

I'm not diminishing Henderson one bit. Just saying, his style was different than Cobb's. For one thing, I'm sure Rickey had more raw speed.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Mark17

What Cobb did was more psychological - delayed steals, taking the unexpected extra base, sliding hard (clean, but hard,) and generally keeping the other team wound up tight, wondering what he would do next.

It's the gnats vs the bee sting theory. Bee sting hurts but gnats are consistently more distracting and annoying.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It should be noted that Cobb's offensive style was to get on base and then use his aggressiveness, brains, and unpredictability to not only manufacture runs, but distract the pitcher and defense into making mistakes. A single is a single.... unless it was Cobb.

Nobody else in baseball history was able to weaponize a single like Ty Cobb.

Agree, along with some of the other posters regarding Henderson, Wills, and Brock. Just having someone on base changes the way most pitchers would then pitch to home run hitters, and also can effect the positioning of infielders as well.

[JollyElm]

As a baseball fan, I feel fortunate that my existence coincided with the career of Rickey Henderson. What an absolute monster he became once he reached first base. He was a human aneurism to whoever was on the mound pitching that day, just screwing their head up. As others have said, you knew NO MATTER WHAT he was going to bolt for second. Everyone in the world knew it, yet there was no way to stop the inevitable. Pitchers had no clue who was batting, because they were 100% focused on the vain attempt to keep Rickey from swiping second. And after he stole second? That monstrous lead he took left him seemingly only a few feet away from third base, and it gave pitchers the jitters as he dared them to try to pick him off. "Come on, I dare you." I imagine Cobb had that same effect on the fans and his opponents. This type of stuff can't be accounted for or captured in all the theoretical newfangled stats. You had to witness Rickey Henderson to really understand what an incredible game changer he was.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Not baseball related, but speaking of breaking rules, I just heard some good news. They decided to leave that rule-breaking Sha'carri Richardson off the US Olympic team for her marijuana use. She knew the rules, now she faces the consequences.