Babe Ruth vs every other card

[frankrizzo29]

This has been a hotly debated topic for quite some time here on net54, vintage vs modern, and we're about to find out for sure how valuable Babe Ruth cards really are. Not sure if anyone has seen heritage's upcoming auction yet, but they have a 1916 M101-5 Blank Back Sporting News Babe Ruth Rookie #151 PSA NM 7 listed to start on April 15th. In full disclosure, I do NOT own this card and it's well out of my price range, but it will be fun to break out the popcorn and watch the bidding begin. How high does everyone think it'll go? My guess is that it'll easily surpass $8 million, and that there's a good chance we could see the first official card sale over $10 million on this one. My official guess is $12 million. Thoughts?

[frankrizzo29]

What is also noteworthy is that there's a honus wagner in the same auction. Should be a great night to watch!

[mrreality68]

Hi

What is even more nuts is the last time in 2016 a 7 sold for 717k in 2015 one sold for $552k and in 2018 sold for $384k.

So for one to sell in Heritage in the millions is just a major jump in price in such a relatively short time is amazing.

I am hoping Ruth takes the crown and holds it versus the modern cards.

In the interest of transparency I am biased because I have a PSA 4 so I have interest as it helps increase the value of all the others like mine

[Rhotchkiss]

I don’t think the Ruth will get anywhere near $8mm, let alone $11mm. In fact, I believe the Wagner 1 outperforms the Ruth 7, by a fairly wide margin. And I am biased on both because I have a Wagner and a Ruth.

I think the Ruth goes for $1.3mm and the Wagner for $2.3mm (a slight step back from the $2.5mm realized by the “A” last month). Both cards are absolute beasts and they should sell for $8mm given what some modern cards are trading, but that’s my prediction; I would be delighted if I am wrong and Babe goes for $8mm.

[Tao_Moko]

I think Ruth could surpass two million pretty easily in this market. Add a million for Wagner. Weird times my friends.

[Scocs]

The 1914 Baltimore News card certainly would!

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t think the Ruth will get anywhere near $8mm, let alone $11mm. In fact, I believe the Wagner 1 outperforms the Ruth 7, by a fairly wide margin. And I am biased on both because I have a Wagner and a Ruth.

I think the Ruth goes for $1.3mm and the Wagner for $2.3mm (a slight step back from the $2.5mm realized by the “A” last month). Both cards are absolute beasts and they should sell for $8mm given what some modern cards are trading, but that’s my prediction; I would be delighted if I am wrong and Babe goes for $8mm.

Ryan - not even close. The Ruth 7 on a bad day will fetch roughly $3 million. A soiled “6” realized nearly $1 million in memory lane so it serves to reason, the 7 should end up at least 3x that amount....and probably more.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Ryan - not even close. The Ruth 7 on a bad day will fetch roughly $3 million. A soiled “6” realized nearly $1 million in memory lane so it serves to reason, the 7 should end up at least 3x that amount....and probably more.

I am willing to bet against that. $500 and I will give you 2.9M and up.

[brianp-beme]

Not in my league (or even stratosphere), but traditionally blank back M101 cards in general have not been considered as desirable to collectors, so I don't see it going for more than a T206 Wagner. Of course in this market who knows, and the Ruth train has definitely gained super train momentum.

Brian

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Ryan - not even close. The Ruth 7 on a bad day will fetch roughly $3 million. A soiled “6” realized nearly $1 million in memory lane so it serves to reason, the 7 should end up at least 3x that amount....and probably more.

Joe, first, the OP states the Ruth could easily surpass $8mm- zero chance. Second, the one in ML was a sporting news back and the 7 is a blank, the former being significantly more desirable; at worst a blank back 7 is equal to a sporting news back 6 (just under $1mm for a soiled one). I agree with Jesse, if you are putting the over/under at $2.9mm, I am betting the house on the under. The card will go for a lot of money, and no doubt set a record for a blank back 7, but I am capping it at $1.5mm and think it goes south of that. I would have no problem being wrong. We will see

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Joe, first, the OP states the Ruth could easily surpass $8mm- zero chance. Second, the one in ML was a sporting news back and the 7 is a blank, the former being significantly more desirable; at worst a blank back 7 is equal to a sporting news back 6 (just under $1mm for a soiled one). I agree with Jesse, if you are putting the over/under at $2.9mm, I am betting the house on the under. The card will go for a lot of money, and no doubt set a record for a blank back 7, but I am capping it at $1.5mm and think it goes south of that. I would have no problem being wrong. We will see

What surprised me the most upon seeing this listing was the $4M estimated value, which suggests either the consignor doesn't care if it sells or he/she is into the card for a lot of money. It is a gorgeous card, though it does have a print line which might turn some people off. I agree with the assessment that the sporting news back in the one ML recently sold compensates to at least some degree for the lower numerical grade. If I'm a betting man, and if the reserve is some very high level as I suspect it is, I do not think the card will sell. If it does sell, I can't imagine how high a BN Ruth could potentially go.

[TUM301]

Not sure if any of these Ruth cards snuff the "modern stuff", but I`m with Scott. It would be really interesting, and eye opening, to see the next Baltimore News Ruth come up for auction.

[ullmandds]

i agree with he sentiment that this ruth card will likely not sell...if it does it will not fetch more than 2 mill...imo. Yes...a baltimore news ruth would certainly be exciting...can't be too long b4 one hits the blocks!

[Touch'EmAll]

Pardon me, you guys are quite knowledgeable - what you think on current value of a 1925 Champions Exhibit Ruth PSA 5, 1 of 1 none higher. In today's market gonna guess close to $20.k, but I could be way off either way. Thx

Steve Parmentier

[ullmandds]

Babe ruth almost always wins vs every other card!!!

I love the 25 exhibit...tough to say? Theres one at auction right now...lower grade...id think yours is easily 15k?

[pokerplyr80]

A great card to be sure, one of the most important and iconic in the hobby and obviously high grade. Way out of my league. I think Ryan has the expected sale price about right, but you never know.

Taking bets under $2.5M

[frankrizzo29]

My original post was meant to get the dialog going. My personal opinion is that the card market is at a very interesting turning point. I believe one of two things will happen with this sale. First scenario is that it plays out exactly as Ryan outlined and that a "traditional" collector buys the card. If that's the case, I think the low pricing scenario wins out. The second scenario is that I believe big money pools have already entered the sportscard market. They have really large sums that they need to "invest", especially as they continue to gather new money. It's much easier for them to do so on a big card than many $10k cards. If that's the case, than this card has the potential to really take off. What makes this auction interesting is that there's a second significant card for auction, and I would even say a more significant card, with the wagner. This may keep a lid on a really crazy price from happening for either card. Nonetheless, it will be fun to watch.

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Pardon me, you guys are quite knowledgeable - what you think on current value of a 1925 Champions Exhibit Ruth PSA 5, 1 of 1 none higher. In today's market gonna guess close to $20.k, but I could be way off either way. Thx

Steve Parmentier

I have a 5.5 1925 Champions Exhibit Babe Ruth. (Highest Graded!)

I think a 5 is certainly close to 20k, at least!

[Touch'EmAll]

Congrats on the 5.5 grade 1925 Ruth. Did you send it to PSA yourself - how recent? Dag nabbit, I had the highest for quite some time ... now it's your turn to own the best. Gee, you look familiar - think I bought your W502 Ruth PSA 5 years ago ???

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Congrats on the 5.5 grade 1925 Ruth. Did you send it to PSA yourself - how recent? Dag nabbit, I had the highest for quite some time ... now it's your turn to own the best. Gee, you look familiar - think I bought your W502 Ruth PSA 5 years ago ???

I sent it myself a few months ago!

I wouldnt sell that card if i were you! Undervalued and very scarce.!m never selling mine!

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

This has been a hotly debated topic for quite some time here on net54, vintage vs modern, and we're about to find out for sure how valuable Babe Ruth cards really are. Not sure if anyone has seen heritage's upcoming auction yet, but they have a 1916 M101-5 Blank Back Sporting News Babe Ruth Rookie #151 PSA NM 7 listed to start on April 15th. In full disclosure, I do NOT own this card and it's well out of my price range, but it will be fun to break out the popcorn and watch the bidding begin. How high does everyone think it'll go? My guess is that it'll easily surpass $8 million, and that there's a good chance we could see the first official card sale over $10 million on this one. My official guess is $12 million. Thoughts?

Compared to modern cards, I think Babe Ruth is still very undervalued! I think your prediction is ambitious but Ruths are on their way! The sky is the limit for the Babe!!!!

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Congrats on the 5.5 grade 1925 Ruth. Did you send it to PSA yourself - how recent? Dag nabbit, I had the highest for quite some time ... now it's your turn to own the best. Gee, you look familiar - think I bought your W502 Ruth PSA 5 years ago ???

A 1 just sold for $3800 range last week on SGC auctions.

[mrreality68]

Should be interesting.
The Heritage bidding openings this morning and opening Bid on Wagner is $500k and the opening bid on the Ruth is $1,000,000.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Should be interesting.

The Heritage bidding openings this morning and opening Bid on Wagner is $500k and the opening bid on the Ruth is $1,000,000.

Already at 1.38mil with the premium.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

They have really large sums that they need to "invest", especially as they continue to gather new money. It's much easier for them to do so on a big card than many $10k cards.

I haven't quite adjusted to $10k being a cheap card, but it's been quite a ride for the hobby since I got started.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by YankeeCollector

Compared to modern cards, I think Babe Ruth is still very undervalued! I think your prediction is ambitious but Ruths are on their way! The sky is the limit for the Babe!!!!

THIS IS A Close Race to Sky is the Limit

Wagner is at $1.2 million (with BIP) and Ruth is at $1.5 million (With BIP) in the first few hours of the auction.

Who will win this Race

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

THIS IS A Close Race to Sky is the Limit

Wagner is at $1.2 million (with BIP) and Ruth is at $1.5 million (With BIP) in the first few hours of the auction.

Who will win this Race

What is the BIP over there? For that matter, What is a Bip? Seriously not familiar with the term as I have never purchased at an auction house.
Is Bip Roberts PSA 10 included in the sale? Thanks

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

What is the BIP over there? For that matter, What is a Bip? Seriously not familiar with the term as I have never purchased at an auction house.
Is Bip Roberts PSA 10 included in the sale? Thanks

SORRY I Meant BP for Buyers Premium. IT is the 20% BP that is added on to the auction bid amount. So the Ruth Card has a $1,250,000 bid and there is a $250,000 Buyers Premium for the Total Auction price of $1.5 million with 24 days left to go in the auction

[SD]

Your missing out.
RIP TONY.
https://youtu.be/cp3ly2wQC1I

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

What is the BIP over there? For that matter, What is a Bip? Seriously not familiar with the term as I have never purchased at an auction house.
Is Bip Roberts PSA 10 included in the sale? Thanks

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

SORRY I Meant BP for Buyers Premium. IT is the 20% BP that is added on to the auction bid amount. So the Ruth Card has a $1,250,000 bid and there is a $250,000 Buyers Premium for the Total Auction price of $1.5 million with 24 days left to go in the auction

I spent 10 minutes on the Heritage site initially and signed up as a bidder. Still could not find it was 20%. That's a stiffy and out of my realm of possibilities. Appreciate you passing the knowledge forward. Thanks!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by SD

Your missing out.
RIP TONY.
https://youtu.be/cp3ly2wQC1I

That's funny as hell. Never saw that before. Thanks for sharing,

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

That's funny as hell. Never saw that before. Thanks for sharing,

+1

Very cool.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

THIS IS A Close Race to Sky is the Limit

Wagner is at $1.2 million (with BIP) and Ruth is at $1.5 million (With BIP) in the first few hours of the auction.

Who will win this Race

For both of these cards, unless the card sells, as I interpret Heritage's terms and conditions one will not know which if any of the bids were "real" bids or house bids. This is because until the item reaches its reserve price the AH can place house bids. This practice is hardly confined to Heritage (e.g., Sothebys and Christies do the same thing, as do other prominent AHs that specialize in sport cards and memorabilia).

I suspect the Wagner will sell, and if it does unless the consignor was the purchaser, an expensive proposition since to do so requires payment of the full BP and SP, the sale will provide useful information as to the market value of Wagners. But for the Ruth, if it doesn't sell, and I am skeptical it will, I don't see how on its face the auction will provide any information as to the market value of M101-4/5 Ruths.

[Exhibitman]

Anyone marvel at the fact that we are so used to $10,000 and even $100,000 sales that our current thrill is watching new seven-figure sales every week?

It's just baseball cards, damnit, it's just baseball cards!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Joe, first, the OP states the Ruth could easily surpass $8mm- zero chance. Second, the one in ML was a sporting news back and the 7 is a blank, the former being significantly more desirable; at worst a blank back 7 is equal to a sporting news back 6 (just under $1mm for a soiled one). I agree with Jesse, if you are putting the over/under at $2.9mm, I am betting the house on the under. The card will go for a lot of money, and no doubt set a record for a blank back 7, but I am capping it at $1.5mm and think it goes south of that. I would have no problem being wrong. We will see

Hi Ryan

might be close on the betting the house on the under. Looks like you might be wrong in a positive way for your cards. Early in the bidding and the Ruth is already almost $2.1 million with BP and the Wagner close behind at almost $1.9 million with BP

[Frankish]

Ruth never fails. I am curious to see where this auction goes.

In the recent Henry Yee ebay auction, I was second bid on a really nice Ruth type 1 photo. Clearly, I underestimated the market appetite. Now I regret not bidding higher....

[mrreality68]

So an update

With 9 days to go Ruth has a $300k lead over Wagner 1,925,000 to 1,625,000 (before BP)

Any thoughts on the new final tally? Will there be a bidding war on the final day?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

So an update

With 9 days to go Ruth has a $300k lead over Wagner 1,925,000 to 1,625,000 (before BP)

Any thoughts on the new final tally? Will there be a bidding war on the final day?

in light of the #/100 "rare" Lebron that just sold for over 5 mill...the ruth is the bargain of the century!!!!!

[Tao_Moko]

I'm sticking with my original thoughts of not being surprised with Ruth over 2 million and Wags over 3. Have a feeling the Wagner gets some late momentum.

[Casey2296]

Final hammer always come down to how bad two guys want it. I'm just a working class collector and this stuff is above my pay grade but I'll play. I'm a little disturbed by the Ruth 4 mil Heritage valuation and think there might be some house manipulation to get it there and their reserve is 3 mil but if they let it go here's my bet.

I'll take pokerplyr80's Ruth bet for $200 on the over.

Ruth $2,750,000 no BP
Wagner $3.125,000 no BP

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Final hammer always come down to how bad two guys want it. I'm just a working class collector and this stuff is above my pay grade but I'll play. I'm a little disturbed by the Ruth 4 mil Heritage valuation and think there might be some house manipulation to get it there and their reserve is 3 mil but if they let it go here's my bet.

I'll take pokerplyr80's Ruth bet for $200 on the over.

Ruth $2,750,000 no BP
Wagner $3.125,000 no BP

Not sure what the Ruth will end at but this is great for the industry. This will trickle down into al of Ruth’s issues and perhaps add light and popularity to prewar...

[oldjudge]

I have been told that this Ruth had previously sold privately for $3.5 million so I expect that there is plenty more upside to come. I expect the final price (including BP) to approach $4 million and I think the Ruth will outperform the Wagner.

[Jcosta19]

Reserves just posted.
Wagner will sell no matter what

Ruth reserve is 3 million. Bidding was at 1.925 before the reserve posted.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jcosta19

Reserves just posted.
Wagner will sell no matter what

Ruth reserve is 3 million. Bidding was at 1.925 before the reserve posted.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Now the million Dollar Question. Or is that the $3 million Questions.

Will someone take the Bid and hit the reserve and jump it to $3 million

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have been told that this Ruth had previously sold privately for $3.5 million so I expect that there is plenty more upside to come. I expect the final price (including BP) to approach $4 million and I think the Ruth will outperform the Wagner.

Do you know when that sale happened? Thank you for sharing that is good intel.

[mrreality68]

$3 million dollar reserve and approx 36 hours to go.

Do we think anyone will take it at the reserve price? That would be a 50% jump from where the bidding was at before the reserve was revealed?

[molenick]

So did Honus win? His card sold for $2,280,000 and it looks like Ruth did not sell and is a "buy it now" at $3.6M. I don't recall what the Ruth bidding was up to before the reserve kicked in.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by molenick

So did Honus win? His card sold for $2,280,000 and it looks like Ruth did not sell and is a "buy it now" at $3.6M. I don't recall what the Ruth bidding was up to before the reserve kicked in.

It was really close

It was $1,925,000 (with BP $2,310,00)

To me the Winner is the Wagner because it sold while the Ruth Because of the Reserve did not sell

But the "non winning" bid on the Ruth was still amazing especially since it sold a few sold in prior years at these prices 2016 a 7 sold for 717k in 2015 one sold for $552k and in 2018 sold for $384k.