NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:21 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,034
Default Printing More Money vs. High Card Prices

I have been wondering about a question I have so thought I would put it out here. If this gets political it will be locked. That is not what is intended. This affects both sides of the aisle.

Do yawl think all of the money being printed by the treasury, and the many trillions being doled out, has anything to do with card prices? It almost seems like there is too much money in the economy but I am far from an economist. A freaking 3.5 of this card just went for over 20k. So much for me getting an upgrade. LOL

__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:27 AM
rjackson44's Avatar
rjackson44 rjackson44 is offline
octavio ranzola
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Manhattan nyc,congers ny
Posts: 12,687
Default

Hi leon dont think so .But the market is insane ,,im selling all my labrons ,,people have gone nuts ,,its insane.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:32 AM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

Yes.

where can you park your money

real estate - covid killed a lot of landlord(lower rent, not able to pay rent, therefore can't pay mortgage), so not looking into getting more

stock - overprice , it keep going up just cuz of money keep pouring in

cash - no interest at the bank

Card - at least something we enjoy, stock if it drop 50% , it's just number, a ruth drop 50% you still hold and enjoy the ruth right. and I know in 10-15 years most likely will worth more than what you pay

Last edited by dio; 02-22-2021 at 08:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:37 AM
Seven's Avatar
Seven Seven is offline
James M.
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: New York
Posts: 1,603
Default

Leon,

I'm by no means an expert, while I do think the stimulus checks shouldered a little bit of the blame early on, I'm thinking now it's more because people are looking to cards as an investment opportunity and big money is getting thrown into the Hobby by people who would normally spend it on other things.

We still have portions of the Nation who do not feel safe traveling, or going out of there house, but still earning an income, the end result, I think is that money gets poured into the hobby. Combine that with the fact people see rising prices as an "investment opportunity" so new money starts entering from people who don't really know what a reasonable price is for a card and we get this result.

We also have the issue of card prices shooting up on various older players that are still alive because people want to capitalize on their eventual demise. Look what is happening to Mays' cards ever since Aaron died.

I have not been in this hobby for nearly as long as half the people on this forum, but frankly I do not think it's sustainable, at all. I do think some of the high end Vintage stars will maintain their value, but we see some sort of correction eventually.
__________________
Successful Deals With:

charlietheexterminator, todeen, tonyo, Santo10fan
Bocabirdman (5x), 8thEastVB, JCMTiger, Rjackson44
Republicaninmass, 73toppsmann, quinnsryche (2x),
Donscards.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:49 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 7,391
Default

Yawl is a sailboat.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES


274/1000 Monster Number


Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024.
Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served.
If you want fries with your order, just speak up.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:07 AM
MooseDog's Avatar
MooseDog MooseDog is offline
J Stone
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,202
Default

Short answer to Leon... not directly. However the easy money is somewhat related as I do believe that the stock market is more likely tied to the rise in card prices. There are an awful lot of people in the US that make far, far more money and have far greater assets than they or their families will EVER be able to spend. Nobody NEEDS $1B, let alone hundreds of millions. At some point it's just a way to keep score and the whole concept of money as reality goes away.

Some with unlimited resources just want stuff and will outbid anyone else...well, because they can. And it only takes two to tango in an auction.

Imagine if Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos decided they wanted a certain high-end marquee card!

I also believe there is a certain level of "pump and dump" action going on.

My 2 cents.

FWIW I'm in the bottom 50% statistically, and got both stimulus payments of which 100% went to pay bills.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:12 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,968
Default

I agree that all the printing of money has caused prices to rise. I noticed prices on modern cards taking off when stimulus checks hit and now some of that is flowing into vintage. Also, people not being able to spend money in recreational areas frees up money for cards. If you didn't spend money on season tickets or vacations, why not put it in cards. It has also created a volatile stock market and people are looking to diversify into other investments like cards. There are plenty of influencers who got in at floor levels that are really pushing cards as investments.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:19 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

I don't know if I understand how stimulus checks are related. Personally, I've received less than $2,000 the entire pandemic. I don't see how that would open a door for me to buy a 20K card.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:21 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
Jay Shumsky
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I don't know if I understand how stimulus checks are related. Personally, I've received less than $2,000 the entire pandemic. I don't see how that would open a door for me to buy a 20K card.
I agree. People who can afford to pay 5 and 6 figures for cards are probably not doing it with stimulus money.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:30 AM
JohnnyKilroy JohnnyKilroy is offline
Matt L
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
I agree. People who can afford to pay 5 and 6 figures for cards are probably not doing it with stimulus money.
The question is not about the stimulus money that people received. You are correct, people are not spending 1200, or whatever they got, on big cards. The question is about the fed “stimulating” the economy buy continuously printing money to keep us from imploding. So yes.. without a doubt.. it is a HUGE player in driving card prices up. I have to run, but I will explain later if someone doesn’t beat me to it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:32 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy View Post
The question is not about the stimulus money that people received. You are correct, people are not spending 1200, or whatever they got, on big cards. The question is about the fed “stimulating” the economy buy continuously printing money to keep us from imploding. So yes.. without a doubt.. it is a HUGE player in driving card prices up. I have to run, but I will explain later if someone doesn’t beat me to it.
Correct. I got 600 dollars. That isn't going to buy much nowadays in nice cards. It's the feeling and sentiment of easy money that is my thought on the subject.

.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:38 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,261
Default

The Fed's Easy Money Printing Def is a big factor.

What I fear is happening is a lot of collectors are in somewhat of a panic mode of FOMO thus running up their credit card limit's on purchases because they're afraid if they don't buy now they will never be able to afford 6 months from now. This Upward Cycle in Ever/Always increasing values of cards doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon. If it does it could get ugly.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:40 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Brian Macdonald
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 340
Default

This is incomprehensible to me




25 highest-paid hedge fund managers made $32 billion in 2020, a record

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/22/-25-...n-in-2020.html
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:55 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I don't know if I understand how stimulus checks are related. Personally, I've received less than $2,000 the entire pandemic. I don't see how that would open a door for me to buy a 20K card.
There are people getting the full 3600, with another 2800 coming, that don't need that money. Add in money not spent on vacations, going to cards shows, going to games, going out to eat and to movies, etc and there is plenty of extra money being spent on cards.

It is not like this happened overnight. Stimulus checks started hitting last April. Vintage really started jumping in January. That is plenty of time for guys to flip cards and have 5 figures to buy cards. There were huge run ups in modern cards, especially basketball and Project 2020, last year and guys have moved from prospects into legends as more stable investments. This is not the whole cause, but is one of several major factors.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:59 AM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
There are people getting the full 3600, with another 2800 coming, that don't need that money. Add in money not spent on vacations, going to cards shows, going to games, going out to eat and to movies, etc and there is plenty of extra money being spent on cards.

It is not like this happened overnight. Stimulus checks started hitting last April. Vintage really started jumping in January. That is plenty of time for guys to flip cards and have 5 figures to buy cards. There were huge run ups in modern cards, especially basketball and Project 2020, last year and guys have moved from prospects into legends as more stable investments. This is not the whole cause, but is one of several major factors.
I think money first goes to modern. And some gain so much start moving asset to more conservative and know vintage is better long run. They saw vintage market is undervalue for so long.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:59 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

That's a lot of benchmarking and criteria to clear for stimulus money to have anything to do with a 20K card.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:01 AM
dealme's Avatar
dealme dealme is online now
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
I agree that all the printing of money has caused prices to rise. I noticed prices on modern cards taking off when stimulus checks hit and now some of that is flowing into vintage. Also, people not being able to spend money in recreational areas frees up money for cards. If you didn't spend money on season tickets or vacations, why not put it in cards. It has also created a volatile stock market and people are looking to diversify into other investments like cards. There are plenty of influencers who got in at floor levels that are really pushing cards as investments.
I think this is really a good point. While many people have been been greatly impacted financially by the pandemic (or more accurately the response to it), many others have not. Those that have not been negatively affected by the situation likely have disposable income that in the past was spent on tickets, vacations, etc. Some of that disposable income is now being spent on cards. Plus, at least with some of the higher dollar examples, it would seem that cards are now a trendy place to park ones investment dollar.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:06 AM
iwantitiwinit's Avatar
iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is online now
rob.ert int.rieri
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 2,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseDog View Post
Short answer to Leon... not directly. However the easy money is somewhat related as I do believe that the stock market is more likely tied to the rise in card prices. There are an awful lot of people in the US that make far, far more money and have far greater assets than they or their families will EVER be able to spend. Nobody NEEDS $1B, let alone hundreds of millions. At some point it's just a way to keep score and the whole concept of money as reality goes away.



Some with unlimited resources just want stuff and will outbid anyone else...well, because they can. And it only takes two to tango in an auction.

Imagine if Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos decided they wanted a certain high-end marquee card!

I also believe there is a certain level of "pump and dump" action going on.

My 2 cents.

FWIW I'm in the bottom 50% statistically, and got both stimulus payments of which 100% went to pay bills.

In my opinion this is 100pct accurate. It's not individuals getting stimulus checks, it's the new super wealthy that have significantly increased in number as a result of crypto price surge, the proliferation of spac issuance that instantly enriches the sponsor, real estate strength, etc. They are buying immense quantities of hard assets from the extremely rare to the limited quantity luxury items. Stories of individuals buying a ferrari dealership out of their entire inventory, super yacht shortages, low if non existent waterfront properties in prime locations. This will result in hyper inflation and will filter down into what was previously thought of as things that were considered available though somewhat limited in quantity to those making a decent living but were not wealthy. Things as simple as say lobsters (dont laugh), or BMWs, relatively fine wine etc. It is all going to be bought up.

Last edited by iwantitiwinit; 02-22-2021 at 10:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:09 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

I haven't seen a very good explanation for why a person with no previous interest in cards would suddenly decide they needed a 1953 Topps Satchel Paige.

I really don't see why there is a POV that the uninitiated are driving up prices. A 52 mantle, a T206 Wagner, sure, those kinds of cards will appeal to the same layman that Picasso does to people who don't collect art.

What drives a guy to buy a 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinson?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:17 AM
chadeast's Avatar
chadeast chadeast is offline
Ch@d
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Posts: 762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I have been wondering about a question I have so thought I would put it out here. If this gets political it will be locked. That is not what is intended. This affects both sides of the aisle.

Do yawl think all of the money being printed by the treasury, and the many trillions being doled out, has anything to do with card prices? It almost seems like there is too much money in the economy but I am far from an economist. A freaking 3.5 of this card just went for over 20k. So much for me getting an upgrade. LOL

And so much for me hoping to buy yours after said upgrade! Watching whats happened to the 33 Goudey Ruths over the past two months has been pretty amazing, & REA last night felt like the end of my dreams... for now. Big regrets on my part just missing out on two 144s in major auctions in December In the non-Ruth realm, i was able to fill in quite a few holes in my ‘33 Goudey set last night.
__________________
successful deals with hcv123, rholmes, robw1959, Yankees1964, theuclakid, Brian Van Horn, h2oya311, thecapeleague, Gkoz316, chesbro41, edjs, wazoo, becollie, t206kid, vintageismygame, Neal, bradmar48, iconsportscards, wrapperguy, agrebene, T3fan, T3s, ccre, Leon, wolf441, cammb, tonyo, markf31,gonzo,scmavl & others

currently working on:
E101 (33/50)
T3 set (104/104), complete!
T205 set (108/221)
'33 Goudey
collecting W600s, Walter Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:35 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
In my opinion this is 100pct accurate. It's not individuals getting stimulus checks, it's the new super wealthy that have significantly increased in number as a result of crypto price surge, the proliferation of spac issuance that instantly enriches the sponsor, real estate strength, etc. They are buying immense quantities of hard assets from the extremely rare to the limited quantity luxury items. Stories of individuals buying a ferrari dealership out of their entire inventory, super yacht shortages, low if non existent waterfront properties in prime locations. This will result in hyper inflation and will filter down into what was previously thought of as things that were considered available though somewhat limited in quantity to those making a decent living but were not wealthy. Things as simple as say lobsters (dont laugh), or BMWs, relatively fine wine etc. It is all going to be bought up.
Why can't it be both?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:55 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I haven't seen a very good explanation for why a person with no previous interest in cards would suddenly decide they needed a 1953 Topps Satchel Paige.

I really don't see why there is a POV that the uninitiated are driving up prices. A 52 mantle, a T206 Wagner, sure, those kinds of cards will appeal to the same layman that Picasso does to people who don't collect art.

What drives a guy to buy a 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinson?
One Word MONEY
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-22-2021, 11:04 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
Joh.n Spen.cer
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,068
Default

I*have to believe that the value of the dollar will have to erode longterm. The decision way back in 1948 at the Bretton/ Woods Conference to make the dollar the world's reserve currency was probably fine until Nixon went off the backing of gold in 1971, and all bets were off. Quantitative easing and Covid relief packages have left the country flooded in liquidity and the repayment of all these bonds plus interest will reflate even more. Let's face it the Federal Reserve's actions is almost a Ponzi scheme in that new investors are needed to keep the party going. I don't think we are at the stage where the prices of oil and gold are soon to be denominated in Euros, Yuan or Yen but do feel the days of dollar dominance are fading.
All of that just means that there should be ample surpluses of money for those who have some to buy sports' cards. Right now it is a wild and heady environment for those those who can play the game. My God, 90K for the Goudey #53 Ruth in last night's REA auction just seems surreal
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-22-2021, 11:46 AM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadeast View Post
And so much for me hoping to buy yours after said upgrade! Watching whats happened to the 33 Goudey Ruths over the past two months has been pretty amazing, & REA last night felt like the end of my dreams... for now. Big regrets on my part just missing out on two 144s in major auctions in December In the non-Ruth realm, i was able to fill in quite a few holes in my ‘33 Goudey set last night.
Awesome card Leon - that batting pose is a classic!

We all know the fed/fiscal stimulus is the main reason for where stocks and cards are valued. Conceptually, it's not about whose getting checks. It's about how the checks are recycled (velocity) back in our economy. Say the $600 is used to pay for groceries or Pokemon cards. That cash is used to support the business selling those goods, who in turn pay the employees to sell those good, who in turn... Stimulus check keep our economy "moving" and bridges us to we normalize (whatever that may be).

More people are employed. At the lower-end, less people are in needs to selling their assets (stocks/cards) to make ends meet, which creates the demand/supply imbalance towards MOAR. At the upper end, that economic activity is supporting the cashflows of our cashflow producing assets, supporting the inflated values of our income producing assets. Until risk assets are valued using an almost risk free rate.... which is not sustainable.

And in a world where there is no alternative (TINA) to stocks because the Fed has pushed us higher in the risk spectrum for yield (as evidence by a 3.5% yield for high yield index!), the marginal difference for yield is not worth it (picking up pennies in front of a steam roller), and more people start looking for alternative places to store their wealth, whether it be art, Gold, Bitcoin or cards. There is no coincidence today that Bitcoin is down ~10% and Gold is up ~2%. People that are running out of Bitcoin are not putting it into stocks, they already predisposed with an alternative mindset for why they are in Bitcoin in the first place. But where did they get this money???

I put an earlier pose, that the Fed increased its balance sheet from 3T in 2013, to 4T in 2018 and not 7.4+T..... so yes, that money is going somewhere.

This is separate from speculation, which is also in our industry and is cause for concern short term, but indifferent long term.

As it relates to the $90K ruth, one sale does not make the market. It sets the price, but only at that time. In times like this, if you can't axe the bid, then value your stuff based on an average of recent sales...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-22-2021, 11:54 AM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

And
PSA 3 52 topps mantle way off center for 90k
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-22-2021, 11:57 AM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
John Collins
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 3,404
Default

Current government policy with what is being printed and distributed related to COVID has an effect, but I don't think it's the cause. The rest of the bubble I believe will be cyclical as we've seen historically with cards since the 1980's, and for those of you that can remember - likely longer than that. What I don't know whether or not is / is not on the level is all these reports of investment portfolios getting interested in both modern and vintage cards. If that's really true, then it could be a game changer if not temporary.
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:08 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
One Word MONEY
But that's not realistic. How would some everyman be driven to buy esoteric collector cards without being a collector?

There are no newly initiated people driving up the prices for many issues that have spiked. It doesn't make sense that they would look anywhere else but prime time for something they know nothing about.

If I'm getting into art, I'm not asking to see someone's Lucien Freud collection. I might have heard of Andy Warhol though.

Last edited by packs; 02-22-2021 at 12:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:42 PM
Directly Directly is offline
Tom Re.bert
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 851
Default "Young investors new slogan"

Cash is trash!!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:54 PM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,375
Default

So here's what I'm wondering. If stocks, real estate, cybercurrency, metals, art and baseball cards are all overpriced, isn't it probable that cash is overvalued? The reason I'm not ready to buy into the concept whole cloth. The reason for that is we are not seeing wholesale price increases in staples. People have been sitting around with nothing to do so buying cards has been a fair enough diversion. Those who have not been hurt by COVID-19 haven't been spending money on some of the things like travel and, to a lesser degree, cars and clothes that we normally would. It's a mystifying time. I would think stocks would be the first to adjust, but what do I know.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:57 PM
FrozenInferno's Avatar
FrozenInferno FrozenInferno is offline
Kevin Petitpas
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Cape Breton, NS
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy View Post
The question is not about the stimulus money that people received. You are correct, people are not spending 1200, or whatever they got, on big cards. The question is about the fed “stimulating” the economy buy continuously printing money to keep us from imploding. So yes.. without a doubt.. it is a HUGE player in driving card prices up. I have to run, but I will explain later if someone doesn’t beat me to it.
A couple thousand in a stimulus check is not going towards a $20k card, but a lot of people took that money months ago and put it into a card or cards of some sort and those cards may have increased in value greatly in the months since. It's very plausible that if someone put $2k into the right card that it could be worth $10k today, and after flipping said card they can turn around and put the profits into something they deem to be safer such as a great vintage card.

The recent surge in vintage coincided with a drop in a lot of modern cards. I think a lot of flippers who were playing the game buying modern cards like Luka in basketball started seeing how volatile that game could be when these current players struggle to live up to hype in a real time season. I believe a lot of people made a lot of money during the last number of months flipping these commodity cards of modern players and now could be sitting on a five or even six-figure bankroll that allows them to ''get serious'' and begin buying safe blue chip vintage cards that have traditionally held and gained value over the long term and won't be susceptible to the up's and downs of an active player's career. Ruth, Mantle, Jordan, Gretzky, Aaron, whomever... These guys won't break their leg tomorrow and see their value plummet.

I can't say this is accounting for everything we're seeing but I can tell you this, I've been doing the exact same thing myself going back to December of 2019. I've turned my 12 years of modern collecting equity into some amazing vintage cards for my PC that I never thought I'd own.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:57 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

There are a lot of assumption being made that people even take vacations or go out to eat. Those are luxuries many people I know had to forego even before the pandemic.

Last edited by packs; 02-22-2021 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:03 PM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
There are a lot of assumption being made that people even take vacations or go out to eat. Those are luxuries many people I know had to forego even before the pandemic.

Its odd, because people are not eating out, or traveling (less experience spending), they are spending on material goods. At the upper end, private planes, boats, second homes away from NY. At the lower end, people like me, baseball cards.... =)

Last edited by joshuanip; 02-22-2021 at 01:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:10 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

Money is money in every other context really except the baseball card world, where now your money is worth the least it has been in quite a while.

If you managed to save 15K and that money means something to you, this is probably the worst possible time to buy.

Last edited by packs; 02-22-2021 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:11 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
Chuck Tapia
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I haven't seen a very good explanation for why a person with no previous interest in cards would suddenly decide they needed a 1953 Topps Satchel Paige.

I really don't see why there is a POV that the uninitiated are driving up prices. A 52 mantle, a T206 Wagner, sure, those kinds of cards will appeal to the same layman that Picasso does to people who don't collect art.

What drives a guy to buy a 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinson?
Because they "always liked Jackie" and they want to collect them all? Never a Bowman fan, but wanted this one in my collection. Not so much the trimmed leaf rookie or ugly 49.

I think many small business's, received gigantic PPP loans that you don't have to pay back. They were discharged pretty quickly and free $$$ to the wealthy, I hear.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 02-22-2021 at 01:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:13 PM
TedWill1939's Avatar
TedWill1939 TedWill1939 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 42
Default

IMO, I think the pandemic and a 40+ age group with monay to spend created a booming market. There are many factors to it but I think this is the foundation. I'm 45 and have a certain amount of comfort in my life that has allowed me to purchase cards I only dreamed of having during the card boom of the 80s. I'm sure there are tons of people in the same situation. The pandemic gave people the free time to explore and revisit old anew interests. I picked up skateboarding with my son after 20 yrs of not being on a board.

Enter the highrollers and speculators getting in on the frenzy and its anyones guess where this will go, a big inflated pissing contest that tanks or a lasting trend with stable highs and lows?

At this point I am thankful for what I have and defintely bummed that some cards I wanted are way way out of reach
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:17 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
Chuck Tapia
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
And
PSA 3 52 topps mantle way off center for 90k
I believe those are asking prices? Have they sold for that anyway? Considering what some of this junk is selling for, that is still a bargain, IMHO.

A PSA 3 is a PSA 3 is a 3 is a 3. Still a nice collectible card with many fine attributes, even if "way off center". Eddie, as in Anal Eddie. You wouldn't want my off center 3 and I wouldn't sell it to you. Not even for 9-0.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 02-22-2021 at 01:21 PM. Reason: YES INDEED!!!! One did appear to sell for 90K. Now all they have to do is pay!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:27 PM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
I believe those are asking prices? Have they sold for that anyway? Considering what some of this junk is selling for, that is still a bargain, IMHO.

A PSA 3 is a PSA 3 is a 3 is a 3. Still a nice collectible card with many fine attributes, even if "way off center". Eddie, as in Anal Eddie. You wouldn't want my off center 3 and I wouldn't sell it to you. Not even for 9-0.
Agree, a 3 is a 3. I have no problem with off center cards, and i owned a few OC, i find great value for them.
that's the sold price, we'll see how heritage/goldin auction ends for these 52 mantle to get a reality of the current value
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:33 PM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
John Collins
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 3,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
Agree, a 3 is a 3. I have no problem with off center cards, and i owned a few OC, i find great value for them.
that's the sold price, we'll see how heritage/goldin auction ends for these 52 mantle to get a reality of the current value
LOL. You never know when the good old centering debate will re-enter the equation! I would agree. A lot of the current thinking on centering preferences is the result of collective bias.
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:28 PM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
LOL. You never know when the good old centering debate will re-enter the equation! I would agree. A lot of the current thinking on centering preferences is the result of collective bias.
A lot of times, ppl compare a centered card with off centered but with similar aspect surface/corner, of course it makes the centering card look way superior
If you compare a beat up center 2 vs a bold color decent corner 2, i'll take the off center one every time.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:35 PM
itjclarke's Avatar
itjclarke itjclarke is online now
I@n Cl@rke
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
If you compare a beat up center 2 vs a bold color decent corner 2, i'll take the off center one every time.
Agree 1000%.

Not OCD about centering in any way, having always preferred clean surface, image, corners. Glad to be in this camp. It saves me $$.

More to topic... big time price for the last Uncle Jimmy Jimmie last night. It's a nice example for sure, but wonder if the fear of missing out on the Uncle Jimmy offerings had something to do with its premium.
https://www.wheatlandauctionservices...entoryid=19358

Last edited by itjclarke; 02-22-2021 at 02:43 PM. Reason: adding link
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-22-2021, 03:16 PM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 5,560
Default

Leon-I don’t think it is that. I think what you are seeing is new well healed buyers entering markets where the supply of desirable goods is limited. If anything, it is probably analogous to Tulipmania, although Tulipmania was a bubble and I’m not sure that this is. If there was too much cash sloshing around in the economy I think you would be seeing widespread inflation and you are not.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:09 PM
Wimberleycardcollector
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Yawl is a sailboat.
It ain't a boat in Texas. LOL.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:10 PM
AGuinness's Avatar
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
Garth Guibord
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 977
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
Leon-I don’t think it is that. I think what you are seeing is new well healed buyers entering markets where the supply of desirable goods is limited. If anything, it is probably analogous to Tulipmania, although Tulipmania was a bubble and I’m not sure that this is. If there was too much cash sloshing around in the economy I think you would be seeing widespread inflation and you are not.
As far as the bubble aspect, regardless of the multitude and range of factors that have contributed to the rise in prices (stimulus, boredom, no travel, no meals out, etc. etc. etc.), some of the players will exit the market. They'll take their profits or losses, take that vacation or whatever. Not all of the people buying cards during this increase in prices will continue to buy cards. The pandemic will subside and many people will move on from cards for one reason or another. Prices will drop, whether this is a bubble or not, although I could see some of the cream of the crop retaining value and not giving back as much.
The big question for collectors is: how many new people who have entered the hobby will remain long term?
Then again, I've been very wrong about very many things before...
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:16 PM
Wimberleycardcollector
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think if the world ever gets back to normal and people start traveling and going out again regularly it will slow down some. We for example cancelled a Disney trip and another vacation to the tune of about ten grand. People are bored and cards are a good distraction and can be done from the comfort and safety of home. I also think there is a faction out there of rich folks making it cool to invest in cards. After the dust settles it'll be like any other collectable market and a lot of folks will move on to something else much like the junk card era or other collectable/investment booms. Vintage will always hold value especially the really cherry stuff but I think in time the hobby will correct itself and this current insanity will run it's course.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:17 PM
Tao_Moko's Avatar
Tao_Moko Tao_Moko is offline
Er1c Sh@rp.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 1,271
Default

My primary clients are farmers, but a huge uptick in web sales for home gardeners when stimulus checks hit. In my case, printed money became a sense of food security for folks all over North America. Also, a form of mental security to combat the stresses of isolation. I believe hobbies, including cards, are experiencing the same impact. One man's hobby is another's business.
__________________
"Chicago Cubs fans are 90% scar tissue". -GFW
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:24 PM
egri's Avatar
egri egri is offline
Sco.tt Mar.cus
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 1,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I don't know if I understand how stimulus checks are related. Personally, I've received less than $2,000 the entire pandemic. I don't see how that would open a door for me to buy a 20K card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
I agree. People who can afford to pay 5 and 6 figures for cards are probably not doing it with stimulus money.
I don't think it impacts those cards, but it is enough to turn a $75 card into a $315 card, as another thread here was discussing. And if someone had spent their first check in the stock market when they got it, they could have enough to pick up a four-figure card, or get a good start on a five-figure one. With the tear the market has been on, someone could have relatively easily turned their stimulus check into a much bigger sum; QQQ was at $180 in March, and it closed today at $322. VOO bottomed out at $200 back then and closed at $355 today.
__________________
Signed 1953 Topps set: 264/274 (96.35 %)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:43 PM
dio dio is offline
Eric Cheng
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA still
Posts: 275
Default

And what happen when next stock market crash. They just going to print more. Unlimited QE. Asset inflation even more
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-23-2021, 01:09 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
Because they "always liked Jackie" and they want to collect them all? Never a Bowman fan, but wanted this one in my collection. Not so much the trimmed leaf rookie or ugly 49.

I think many small business's, received gigantic PPP loans that you don't have to pay back. They were discharged pretty quickly and free $$$ to the wealthy, I hear.
I agree, Jackie Robinson has transcended the hobby. Someone wants an early card of Jackie, can't afford his late 40s cards, but can afford the 50 Bowman.

However, I understand what you meant, I just think you chose the wrong name. Maybe you meant Warren Spahn, or Gaylord Perry, or Bob Feller......

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-23-2021, 05:17 AM
sportscardpete's Avatar
sportscardpete sportscardpete is offline
Pete
Pet.er ian.nic.elli
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 1,430
Default

$600 Stimulus checks are not causing Jordan rookies to go from $20,000 to $700,000.
__________________
Looking for:

Sporting News/Collins McCarthy Jackson
Low Grade Ruth rookie
Signed Wilt Chamberlain rookie

Cards:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/189414509@N08/albums
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-23-2021, 06:06 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

I can only speak for myself but the two checks I got didn’t cover one months rent combined.

Last edited by packs; 02-23-2021 at 06:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1972 Topps High Number Printing Question... JollyElm Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 19 12-02-2020 05:38 PM
offgrade 52 High Numbers (card added, prices lowered) SOLD obcbobd 1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T 2 02-08-2017 03:31 PM
T206 Lot of Six- Miscuts/Printing Errors - Lowered Prices 4/28 z28jd T206 cards B/S/T 3 04-28-2015 06:43 AM
Best Ruth card for the money baez578 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 22 06-17-2013 05:18 PM
Buy It Now (I Would If I Had The Money Or Needed The Card) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 11 11-16-2005 02:53 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:58 PM.


ebay GSB