Ebay question on what constitutes a complete set.

[Steve D]

I say the Traded sets, regardless of year, are not a part of the regular sets; and a 1974 Topps "basic" set is complete at 660 cards, without the separately numbered traded cards. Next thing you know, someone will come around and say the 1974 set you sold them isn't complete because it doesn't have both the San Diego and Washington NL cards, or both Jesus Alou variations, or the two Dave Friesleben San Diego variations (not including the Washington NL).

Now, an argument could be made that a "master" 1974 Topps set would need to include the Traded cards, along with all the variations in the regular set.

For those who think the set is not complete without the traded cards, since the traded cards were included in the same wax packs as the regular cards, consider this:

What about 1969 Topps Deckle Edge.....they were included in the wax packs with the regular 1969 Topps cards. 1970 Topps booklets were included in wax packs with the 1970 cards. Should a 1969 or 1970 Topps set not be considered complete without these other cards/booklets? I think not.

Steve

[icollectDCsports]

Were the 1974 Traded cards an additional card in a pack or was there one less of the base cards in a pack that included a Traded card?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

Were the 1974 Traded cards an additional card in a pack or was there one less of the base cards in a pack that included a Traded card?

There was one less base card. They were not an extra bonus like topps did with inserts in their 60s and early 70s packs. My recollection is that when you bought a box with the traded cards you often got multiple traded cards in many packs.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by rats60

There was one less base card. They were not an extra bonus like topps did with inserts in their 60s and early 70s packs. My recollection is that when you bought a box with the traded cards you often got multiple traded cards in many packs.

Interesting, so the Traded were not inserts then. To me, further proof they were meant to be part of the regular set.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Steve D

What about 1969 Topps Deckle Edge.....they were included in the wax packs with the regular 1969 Topps cards. 1970 Topps booklets were included in wax packs with the 1970 cards. Should a 1969 or 1970 Topps set not be considered complete without these other cards/booklets? I think not.

Steve

Those cards look nothing like the regular issue cards, 1974 Traded card fronts are identical to the regular cards, except the Traded banner. They were clearly meant to update the original card to show a transaction.

If you look at a 1974 Topps Factory Set, it says "Official 1974 Complete Set, over 700 cards" the box does not say "660 cards plus bonus traded cards" I believe that shows Topps intended the Traded to be part of a complete set and however PSA or price guides list them is irrelevant.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Jim65

If you look at a 1974 Topps Factory Set, it says "Official 1974 Complete Set, over 700 cards" the box does not say "660 cards plus bonus traded cards" I believe that shows Topps intended the Traded to be part of a complete set and however PSA or price guides list them is irrelevant.

Where are you seeing Topps "Factory Sets" from the 1970s?

I started collecting via wax packs in 1970, and started buying cards, from Larry Fritsch, in 1975. "Factory" sets were never seen or heard of, until Topps began issuing them in the mid-1980s. Even the big dealers like Fritsch and Renata Galasso bought 12,000-card cases, and had to hand-collate all the cards into individual sets.

Steve

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Where are you seeing Topps "Factory Sets" from the 1970s?

I started collecting via wax packs in 1970, and started buying cards, from Larry Fritsch, in 1975. "Factory" sets were never seen or heard of, until Topps began issuing them in the mid-1980s. Even the big dealers like Fritsch and Renata Galasso bought 12,000-card cases, and had to hand-collate all the cards into individual sets.

Steve

Topps did a factory set in 1974 for JC Penny's catalog.That was the first year baseball cards were issued in one series. They didn't do it again until 1983.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by rats60

Topps did a factory set in 1974 for JC Penny's catalog.That was the first year baseball cards were issued in one series. They didn't do it again until 1983.

Wow, I did not know that.

Thank you!

Steve

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by rats60

Topps did a factory set in 1974 for JC Penny's catalog.That was the first year baseball cards were issued in one series. They didn't do it again until 1983.

There was also a 1982 Topps Factory set came in a brown woodgrain box That says "The Complete set Baseball picture cards" No date on outside box. I have one around here somewhere..
J

[999Tony]

1974 was my second year collecting. I got a ton of those ugly traded cards. Of course they were part of the set as they were in every pack of cards. But I learned a few years ago when I started collecting again that the standard convention is to sell the traded set separately and if sold with the set it is more like bonus cards. An inexperienced collector like I was until recently would not know this.

[steve B]

The wax boxes all say "all 660 cards in one series"
The box topper ad says "all 660 cards in one series"

Just because they made a special post season set for a large retail customer does not mean the traded were part of the main set.

[bounce]

if it's called a "traded set", why would it part of the "regular set"?

parsing words to say a "complete set" should include both is pretty ridiculous in my view.

sorry to see this happening.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Where are you seeing Topps "Factory Sets" from the 1970s?

I started collecting via wax packs in 1970, and started buying cards, from Larry Fritsch, in 1975. "Factory" sets were never seen or heard of, until Topps began issuing them in the mid-1980s. Even the big dealers like Fritsch and Renata Galasso bought 12,000-card cases, and had to hand-collate all the cards into individual sets.

Steve

Here ya go

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Here ya go

OK, it appears Topps set the precedent that the "official" 1974 set includes the traded cards. Now, taking it further, since they also issued a 44-card Traded set in 1976, with the same numbering system, the "official" 1976 set would also include the Traded cards.

So, I now agree that anyone selling the set, should say if they are not including the Traded cards in the set they are selling. Having said that, I feel it should still be up to the buyer to verify what cards are included, before bidding. I can see, though, under ebay's rules favoring the buyer, that any seller who doesn't specify that the Traded cards are not included, is opening him/herself to a buyer complaint and possible refund.

Steve

[icollectDCsports]

Plot twist.

[toppcat]

74 Traded are Inserts

[JollyElm]

It comes down to a collector's mindset. At the time, everyone (contrarians aside) saw the Traded set as an entity unto itself. The people buying packs looked at them as a separate set with a separate checklist, like a weird added bonus. Although the word 'bonus' doesn't work too well, because the terribly airbrushed headshots look God-awful. That speaks to me the loudest.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I say the Traded sets, regardless of year, are not a part of the regular sets; and a 1974 Topps "basic" set is complete at 660 cards, without the separately numbered traded cards. Next thing you know, someone will come around and say the 1974 set you sold them isn't complete because it doesn't have both the San Diego and Washington NL cards, or both Jesus Alou variations, or the two Dave Friesleben San Diego variations (not including the Washington NL).

Now, an argument could be made that a "master" 1974 Topps set would need to include the Traded cards, along with all the variations in the regular set.

For those who think the set is not complete without the traded cards, since the traded cards were included in the same wax packs as the regular cards, consider this:

What about 1969 Topps Deckle Edge.....they were included in the wax packs with the regular 1969 Topps cards. 1970 Topps booklets were included in wax packs with the 1970 cards. Should a 1969 or 1970 Topps set not be considered complete without these other cards/booklets? I think not.

Steve

Bob Apodaca called. He's hurt you left him off your list...