1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by abctoo

It cannot be said he didn't know about Ted's 2009 research into the Leaf cards. Lemke's blog often talked about Jackie Robinson cards, but he carefully avoided discussing anything about whether the Leaf set was issued in 1948 or 1949. The catalog he edited for years calls it a 1948 set.

WRONG !....and, do I have to go and dig up Bob Lemke's Standard Catalogs to prove to you (and the other naysayers) that Bob listed the LEAF BB set as a 1949 issue for many
years now ?
For example (off the top of my head), I know for sure that the 2011 edition identifies the cards in this set as an 1949 issue.

I've known Bob Lemke since 1981, when he published mine and Ralph Triplette's 1949 BOWMAN article in his Baseball Cards Magazine. An article which enlightened the hobby on
the complexity of this BOWMAN set.

Subsequently, Bob published 5 more of my articles regarding BOWMAN BB and FB sets (1948 - 1953).

So, I don't need you to lecture me regarding Bob Lemke. Bob and I were great friends, who kept in touch with each other for many years.

GOD Bless Bob's soul.



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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[ALR-bishop]

I have not kept my oldest versions of the Standard Catalog but do keep the 2011 issue because it was the last one that included post 80 issues. As Ted mentions it does list it as a 49 issue. My newest Catalog is 2014, which may have been the last print edition, edited by Tom Bartsch. It also lists it as 49

I lost a good friend and and hobby lost a great resource when Bob Lemke passed

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have not kept my oldest versions of the Standard Catalog but do keep the 2011 issue because it was the last one that included post 80 issues. As Ted mentions it does list it as a 49 issue. My newest Catalog is 2014, which may have been the last print edition, edited by Tom Bartsch. It also lists it as 49

I lost a good friend and and hobby lost a great resource when Bob Lemke passed

Hi Al
You and I have the same Standard Catalog editions (2011 and 2014). Here is the Copyright date and the 1949 LEAF listing in the 2011 issue (the 2014 edition is exactly
the same....1949 LEAF.

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Furthermore, here is the Beckett 1998 edition, which confirms the information I provided in Post #342 in this thread.

.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jim Beckett contacted me in 1997 regarding the 1949 LEAF set. Jim started identifying this set as a 1949 issue in
his 1998 BECKETT Baseball Card Price Guide.

Prior to 1998, Beckett listed this set as a 1948/1949 issue.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Al
You and I have the same Standard Catalog editions (2011 and 2014). Here is the Copyright date and the 1949 LEAF listing in the 2011 issue (the 2014 edition is exactly
the same....1949 LEAF. . . .

Furthermore, here is the Beckett 1998 edition, which confirms the information I provided in Post #342 in this thread. . . .

Ted, there is no question about many miscalling the issue date of the Leaf set as 1948 and not 1949, nor of the efforts you have undertaken to try to straighten it out since the last century.

My question here in this Bond Bread thread is, "What do any of us do about what OldCardboard says about "1947 D305 Bond Bread" cards ( https://oldcardboard.com/d/d305/d305.asp?cardsetID=1003 ) and what Sports Collector's Digest now says in its August 2, 2020 edition about the same cards ( https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ines-1947-set/ )?

[tedzan]

OK guys,

Al Richter and I have provided sufficient evidence with Jim Beckett's and Bob Lemke's BB card publications that confirm the 1949 LEAF date has been listed
in their Catalogs as far back as 1998.
Furthermore, these publications also confirm the LEAF HOFer Premiums as a 1949 issue even before 1998. And, it was known back then that the LEAF cards
and HOFer Premiums were issued in the same vendor boxes. PSA and SGC could have corrected their egregious mistakes at least 22 years ago.


Here is my 2005 Standard Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards (by Bob Lemke).

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Al and I have provided sufficient evidence with Jim Beckett's and Bob Lemke's BB card publications that confirm the 1949 LEAF date has been the standard since 1998.

Today, PSA in the "Facts" section of its website ( https://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/ba.../1948-leaf/144 ) states:

"The 1948 Leaf Baseball set consists of 98 cards, each 2-3/8" by 2-7/8". Key athletes include Joe DiMaggio (#1), Babe Ruth (#3), and Stan Musial (#4). The set is also anchored by diamond heroes Luke Appling, Larry Doby, Bobby Doerr, Bob Feller, George Kell, Ted Kluszewski, Hal Newhouser, Jackie Robinson, Satchel Paige, Phil Rizzuto, Enos Slaughter, Warren Spahn and Ted Williams, as well an evocative tribute to Honus Wagner (#70). Although only 98 entries were produced for the Leaf set, its cards actual numbers spanned between 1 and 168. The Leaf baseball production was the first major issue of its type to use skip-numbering, wherein the cards' consecutively numbered entries when fully assembled and complete failed to yield a correspondingly complete run of card numbers. Forty-nine cards are considered "Short Prints," including such lesser players as Johnny Wyrostek and Eddie Joost. Among the most desirable pieces is an error card - #102 Gene Hermanski – that exists without the letter "i" in his last name. This card is among the famous and sought-after of all postwar error cards, as are the Full Sleeve (standard) and Short Sleeve (error) versions of Cliff Aberson's card, #136."


According to its website, to date, PSA has graded some 25,724 cards as "1948 Leaf," including some 1,362 Jackie Robinson's.

You would think that one of the owners of these more than one thousand Jackie Robinson cards would have asked PSA to correctly attribute the card. Or is the apparent failure to ask for a correction more driven by a fear the card may lose value because they are not a "rookie" card?

Mike

[Exhibitman]

Meanwhile the portrait card is catching up to the Leaf card, priced to condition:

[investinrookies]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Meanwhile the portrait card is catching up to the Leaf card, priced to condition:

The portrait card is far better looking than the leaf, the portrait is exceptional and depicts the true robinson. Vastly under-valued card in comparison to the leaf especially figuring in the much lower pop. Might not be the most popular (yet) but it will catch up and likely pass the leaf over time.

[abctoo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I've known Bob Lemke since 1981, when he published mine and Ralph Triplette's 1949 BOWMAN article in his Baseball Cards Magazine. An article which enlightened the hobby on the complexity of this BOWMAN set.

Subsequently, Bob published 5 more of my articles regarding BOWMAN BB and FB sets (1948 - 1953).

So, I don't need you to lecture me regarding Bob Lemke. Bob and I were great friends, who kept in touch with each other for many years.

GOD Bless Bob's soul.

Ted, my 1st edition of the Standard Catalog edited by Dan Albaugh says its a 1948/49 Leaf set. See scan below.



You're screaming at me when you missed the key point of what was written.

If you had looked at my reference to the 2020 SCD article on Bond Bread cards (https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ines-1947-set/), you would have seen an article that started out looking good. But if you had read a little further, you would see it saying Bond Bread insert cards come with both round and square corners. That's not Bob Lemke's public legacy.

I'm not lecturing you on Bob Lemke. He did a tremendous amount to preserve and protect the hobby . . . and is missed.

I am not diminishing his extensive efforts by pointing out that in a couple of his blogs he asserted that Bond Bread cards were made by AARCO, the playing card company, basing on his assertion that playing cards have round corners and so do Bond Bread package inserts.

Did you read the printed text next to the inscription Bob Lemke wrote to Leon on the inside cover page of Lemke's catalog pictured a little above?

It says:

"To never changed any of his opinions, never correct any of his mistakes:
and he who was never wise enough to find mistakes in himself,
will not be charitable enough to excuse them in others." -- Anonymous

There's a lot of cards out there besides those people associate with Bond Bread. But am I wrong in pointing out that he called the perforated dual sided cards "Bond Bread" and "Hess Shoe" cards when we all have learned they are an Elgee product?

Your beef is not with me. The question is, what can we all do together to get the grading card company experts from calling all the lookalikes as Bond Bread cards?

Mike

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by abctoo

It cannot be said he didn't know about Ted's 2009 research into the Leaf cards. Lemke's blog often talked about Jackie Robinson cards, but he carefully avoided discussing anything about whether the Leaf set was issued in 1948 or 1949. The catalog he edited for years calls it a 1948 set.

Why did you change this date (1948) on your original statement in your Post #343 ? ?

You clearly stated 1948, which tells me you don't know what you are talking about !

Bob Lemke and I discussed a lot of BB (and FB) card sets over the years since 1981.
Bob agreed with me regarding the 1949 issue date of the Baseball LEAF set, after
I pointed out that the Lou Boudreau card stating his MVP award in it's bio. Which
occurred in mid-December of 1948.

Furthermore, I pointed out that LEAF switched to GRAY cardboard stock in 1949 for all their Sportscards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[abctoo]

Ted, I do not have a beef with you. But have you lately seen what Old Cardboard says about "1947 D305 Bond Bread" cards?

Today the website reads:

Set Summary

Produced in 1947 by Homogenized Bond Bread
Unnumbered, borderless set printed in black and white
Facsimile autograph is only labeling on each card front
Originally distributed with rounded corners and blank backs
Large stash found in 1980's with square corner variations
Cards (both rounded & square) often found in high grade
Compare Vern Stephens cards for each variation below

[showing both round (die-cut) and square corner cards]

https://oldcardboard.com/d/d305/d305.asp?cardsetID=1003

If you click on the links on that webpage to the Gallery, you see both round and square corner cards intermittently pictured. And they don't address the question of Sport Star Subjects cards that exist today.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Jim Beckett contacted me in 1997 regarding the 1949 LEAF set. Jim started identifying this set as a 1949 issue in
his 1998 BECKETT Baseball Card Price Guide,.
Prior to 1998, Beckett listed this set as a 1948/1949 issue.

The STANDARD CATALOG of VINTAGE BASEBALL CARDS (by Bob Lemke) identifies the 1949 LEAF as a 1949 issue.


I don't understand what your problem is ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have not kept my oldest versions of the Standard Catalog but do keep the 2011 issue because it was the last one that included post 80 issues. As Ted mentions it does list it as a 49 issue. My newest Catalog is 2014, which may have been the last print edition, edited by Tom Bartsch. It also lists it as 49

I lost a good friend and and hobby lost a great resource when Bob Lemke passed

The pictures I posted are from my copy of the 2016/17 SCD catalog

[ALR-bishop]

Pat— Have there been editions subsequent to that one ?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Pat— Have there been editions subsequent to that one ?

I haven't seen any Al, I just looked on amazon and ebay and that's the most
recent edition I could find.

[ALR-bishop]

The first time I was required to either edit a comment or include my name involved a post in pre war opining that Don Fluckinger had messed up the first Standard Catalog he handled after Bob’s retirement 😊