1967 Topps High Numbers

[Kevvyg1026]

This is obviously pure speculation on my part but if Topps used a similar printing pattern to what they did in several other years, I expect the last seven rows on the second half-sheet to be headed by (in order): 557, 576, 580, 531, 550, 547, 558.

From what I have seen from 77 card print runs from 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, and 1969, Topps used a pattern (with seven unique rows labeled A thru G) like:


1. One half-sheet: A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E

2. 2nd half-sheet: variable two rows (in 1967 A, F), followed by A, F, G, B, C, D, E, A, F, G.

From what you have shown, this pattern seems to be appearing in 1967 as well. The first half-sheet has the pattern A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E while the other has: A, F, A, F, G. Thus, this five row snippet MIGHT be followed by B, C, D, E, A, F, G.

Unfortunately, no miscut information will identify if that is the pattern; only that it isn't. This is because row C is always underneath row B, row D is always under row C, etc. However, if a miscut is found that violates this pattern, that would be very helpful!!

If (and it is IF) this speculation is true, row A, with Pinson, would be printed five times across the two half sheets, row F (with Rohr) 4x, and five rows (Ferrara, Hernandez rookie, Colavito, Checklist, & Belanger rookie) 3x each.

This would make the cards in the Pinson row almost double-printed (5:3 ratio), while the cards in the Rohr row (4:3 ratio) printed at a slightly higher rate than those of the other 54 cards. The checklist, is naturally, printed at a higher frequency since it was also printed in the prior print run.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Unfortunately, no miscut information will identify if that is the pattern; only that it isn't. This is because row C is always underneath row B, row D is always under row C, etc. However, if a miscut is found that violates this pattern, that would be very helpful!!

Yup, when I first posted this thread I thought it was possible a repeat portion of the array would make it impossible to use miscuts. One interesting idea from the suggested patterns you posted is that the Seaver row (G, or SP2 in my parlance) could be a bottom row on the unknown sheet. That might help explain why the cards in that row are really more of a short print than any other three-peat row. Some kind of production issue could have affected it for a press run or when cutting down into individual cards.

Checked my 67 set, no high number miscuts, or even close really.

[Bigdaddy]

So I went on to ComC and looked at the number of cards for sale for each of the '67s listed below to try to get some hard data for relative population numbers. This accounts for both slabbed and unslabbed cards. Probably the real outliers are the Seaver and Carew RCs, which I would imagine reside in higher numbers in PCs than most of the others. If you could define the relative printing of the card per sheet as 1X, 2X, 3X, 4X etc, then you could generate bins or buckets that each card would fall into based statistical analysis of the relative populations. Not perfect, but it does give more insight on the relative scarcity of the high numbers. And shows, statistically, why I had to pay through the nose for Mike Shannon.

SUBJECT B SHEET SCD BECKETT ComCpop
531 7TH SERIES CHECKLIST DP 23
534 BAUER SP DP DP 32
535 CLENDENON 13
536 CUBS ROOKIES (J. NIEKRO) 6
537 ESTRADA DP DP 22
538 MARTIN 8
539 EGAN SP DP DP 16
540 CASH 8
541 GIBBON 6
542 A'S ROOKIES (MONDAY) SP DP DP 18
543 SCHNEIDER 15
544 INDIANS TEAM 9
545 GRANT 9
546 WOODWARD 6
547 RED SOX ROOKIES SP DP DP 17
548 GONZALEZ DP DP 25
549 SANFORD 13
550 PINSON DP DP 14
551 CAMILLI DP DP 25
552 SAVAGE SP 7
553 YANKEES ROOKIES SP 10
554 RODGERS SP DP DP 21
555 CARDWELL 16
556 WEIS SP DP DP 18
557 FERRARA 13
558 ORIOLES ROOKIES (BELANGER) SP 17
559 TRACEWSKI DP DP 24
560 BUNNING 13
561 ALOMAR 9
562 BLASS SP DP DP 13
563 ADCOCK SP 13
564 ASTROS ROOKIES SP DP DP 12
565 KRAUSSE 4
566 GEIGER DP DP 31
567 HAMILTON (YANKEES) 12
568 SULLIVAN SP 8
569 A.L. ROOKIES (CAREW) DP DP 6
570 WILLS 13
571 SHERRY 10
572 DEMETER 13
573 WHITE SOX TEAM 6
574 BUCHEK 8
575 BOSWELL 4
576 N.L. ROOKIES 12
577 SHORT 8
578 BOCCABELLA 11
579 HENRY 18
580 COLAVITO 11
581 METS ROOKIES (SEAVER) SP 6
582 OWENS DP DP 30
583 BARKER (YANKEES) 12
584 PIERSALL 14
585 BUNKER 13
586 JIMINEZ SP 13
587 N.L. ROOKIES 12
588 KLIPPSTEIN SP DP DP 18
589 RICKETTS DP DP 24
590 RICHERT 12
591 CLINE SP 13
592 N.L. ROOKIES 15
593 WESTRUM 13
594 OSINSKI 19
595 ROJAS 16
596 CISCO SP DP DP 18
597 ABERNATHY SP 14
598 WHITE SOX ROOKIES 10
599 DULIBA DP DP 36
600 B. ROBINSON SP 9
601 BRYAN SP DP 26
602 PIZARRO 13
603 A'S ROOKIES SP 10
604 RED SOX TEAM 9
605 SHANNON 8
606 TAYLOR 19
607 STANLEY SP 17
608 CUBS ROOKIES DP DP 30
609 JOHN 16

[toppcat]

Tom:

Thanks for that canvass of COMC it's both interesting and weird. Shannon has always been thought of as tough, at least since the first tabulation data started coming through in the late 70's and early 80's.

Of the single digit pops, only two (552 and 568) correlate to my SP2 row so it does seem something is afoot. If this pop data could be worked out by row it might show an obvious pattern. I did something a little similar with the 52 highs using eBay and figured out two rows (251-260 and 261-270) were DP's and that the highs look to have been printed at half the semi high SP rate. If you know the rows it takes out some of the individual card "noise".

I'll try that here if I have time later today and maybe compare it to eBay too (factoring out COMC). I'll repost my scans too if the don't repopulate on the database rebuild Leon is doing right now.

[Rich Klein]

One quick note on why so few Carews and Seavers was for many years it was truly not economically feasible to send those really high dollar cards to COMC because of the fee structure.

My first NSCC working for COMC the most consistent complaint I received was the cash out fees for expensive cards was way too steep. With some changes in the past couple of years, the fee structure is now competitive with just about any other selling source. There are bog posts in the COMC blog explaining all those changes.

Rich

[toppcat]

I just did an eBay canvass. This thread will show the pops in ascending order as follows: Card No. - Row - Count. The next thread will show it by row.

Rows Fronted by:

A 550 Pinson
B 557 Ferrara
C 576 NL Rookies
D 580 Colavito
E 531 7th Checklist
F 547 Red Sox Rookies
G 558 Orioles Rookies

Slit B rows (all positions known):
A
B
C
D
E
A
F
G
B
C
D
E

Slit A rows (top 5 positions known):
A
F
A
F
G

605 B 11
561 D 13
544 E 14
573 D 14
574 E 14
536 D 16
552 G 16
576 C 16
540 D 17
541 D 17
545 C 17
568 G 17
577 D 17
565 B 18
603 G 18
586 G 19
592 B 19
543 B 20
546 C 20
590 E 20
538 C 21
542 F 21
595 B 21
557 B 22
587 E 22
593 C 22
571 D 23
575 B 23
583 B 23
607 G 23
535 B 24
553 G 25
555 B 25
562 F 26
563 G 26
578 C 26
580 D 26
591 G 26
560 E 27
579 C 27
597 G 27
602 E 27
585 C 28
550 A 29
556 F 29
567 C 29
600 E 29
547 F 30
549 D 31
554 F 31
564 F 31
584 E 31
570 D 32
534 F 34
606 C 34
601 F 35
604 B 35
609 D 35
558 G 36
572 E 36
588 F 39
594 C 40
531 E 43
589 A 45
596 F 47
539 F 49
569 A 50
581 G 51
598 E 53
548 A 64
559 A 69
582 A 81
537 A 86
608 A 91
599 A 93
566 A 95
551 A 102

[toppcat]

I just did an eBay canvass. This thread will show the pops by row as follows (rows sequencing is out of order, it's sorted in ascending order per row): Card No. - Row - Count.

Rows Fronted by:

A 550 Pinson
B 557 Ferrara
C 576 NL Rookies
D 580 Colavito
E 531 7th Checklist
F 547 Red Sox Rookies
G 558 Orioles Rookies

Slit B rows (all positions known):
A
B
C
D
E
A
F
G
B
C
D
E

Slit A rows (top 5 positions known):
A
F
A
F
G

550 A 29
589 A 45
569 A 50
548 A 64
559 A 69
582 A 81
537 A 86
608 A 91
599 A 93
566 A 95
551 A 102
605 B 11
565 B 18
592 B 19
543 B 20
595 B 21
557 B 22
575 B 23
583 B 23
535 B 24
555 B 25
604 B 35
576 C 16
545 C 17
546 C 20
538 C 21
593 C 22
578 C 26
579 C 27
585 C 28
567 C 29
606 C 34
594 C 40
561 D 13
573 D 14
536 D 16
540 D 17
541 D 17
577 D 17
571 D 23
580 D 26
549 D 31
570 D 32
609 D 35
544 E 14
574 E 14
590 E 20
587 E 22
560 E 27
602 E 27
600 E 29
584 E 31
572 E 36
531 E 43
598 E 53
542 F 21
562 F 26
556 F 29
547 F 30
554 F 31
564 F 31
534 F 34
601 F 35
588 F 39
596 F 47
539 F 49
552 G 16
568 G 17
603 G 18
586 G 19
607 G 23
553 G 25
563 G 26
591 G 26
597 G 27
558 G 36
581 G 51