Now that MLB is back...does anyone care?

[Runscott]

Seattle doesn't really have a team, my Astros are disgraced, and all the other teams are either boring or our enemies. The '94 strike hurt the sport for years and many of us didn't watch it with any interest until the Sosa/McGwire steroid HR battle. It certainly hasn't been as interesting since, and I'd argue it's been on a slow downhill slide.

So how will the infantile behavior of the spoiled egotistical owners and over-paid players who have no appreciation of where their grossly-gigantic incomes comes from, affect us, the fans?

I really enjoyed watching a 2004 NLCS championship game yesterday, and as long as I can get hold of these old films, I think I'm good.

[nebboy]

I'm a fan - period - I'll take baseball over any other sport - I grew up in football country and stuck with that norm until I grew up and learned to think and follow my own path in life. At times baseball is my distraction from the social whatever is going on in the news on any given day, having a game on TV is the best escape from what the other Chanel's have to offer. I love the fact that it's history in so entwined with this country's history that you can explore and read about the events of of country and find its effects on the game. The GAME has changed in many aspect to reflect the cultural change of our nation, but on the other hand has not. Baseball policy has been great and saddling, has shown fault and achievement it's changed labor laws and cultural norm. It's the best of the USA and at times the worst of greed and sandals - I enjoy baseball on professional and little league level, it,s a piece of my life that I welcome with open arms. Any baseball is good even so much as a 50 something year old guy still collects baseball cards for the love of the game. If baseball is on a down hill slide than I'm all in and will stay on the bandwagon until the end. It's my game and proud to say so!!!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nebboy

I enjoy baseball on professional and little league level, it,s a piece of my life that I welcome with open arms. Any baseball is good even so much as a 50 something year old guy still collects baseball cards for the love of the game. If baseball is on a down hill slide than I'm all in and will stay on the bandwagon until the end. It's my game and proud to say so!!!

I can't argue with any of that. Just wondering about MLB coming back now, not the history, which obviously no one in a vintage baseball card forum would argue isn't important and great. I'm certainly not one of those guys who thinks we should destroy history, even though I know it's currently in vogue. But I would argue that MLB has done everything imaginable to separate it's current incarnation from its history, and has pushed further and further toward something that's unrecognizable from the last time we played a ~60 game season. If all of that doesn't alienate a huge fan like yourself, then I'm betting the slide will continue.

I'm with you regarding Little League and other non-MLB forms of our sport - still all in and if I give up on MLB I'll probably replace it with watching college baseball. Just not sure I'm in for MLB in 2020. I was out for 1995, and life went on just fine. We'll see - I love the sport so much that I won't know until it's 'opening day' and I have the option of watching a game.

[packs]

In some sense I'll care even more this year. If Paxton gets hurt making 3 starts in a 60 game season and misses his final year in 2021, I couldn't help but feel like the decision to play this year was a stupid one.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

In some sense I'll care even more this year. If Paxton gets hurt making 3 starts in a 60 game season and misses his final year in 2021, I couldn't help but feel like the decision to play this year was a stupid one.

With his luck this will be his career season, but not enough stats to make it shine in the future. He's one of my favorites so I wish him well.

[packs]

I'll have to revise my view. Paxton is a free agent after 2020, not 2021. Pitch him every day.

[Jim65]

If there ended up not being a season, I wouldn't have cared. Now that there is, I'll watch my Mets.

[Mark17]

No. The short season is a joke. To qualify for the batting title, I believe a batter needs 3.1 PA per scheduled game. A 50 game season therefore requires just 155 PA. So what will happen is, somebody is going to draw 30 walks, get 50 hits, and be the first .400 hitter since Teddy Ballgame. That would be the ultimate mockery of the sanctity of that record.

[todeen]

Reds fan here. Cincinnati positioned themselves for this to be THE YEAR. I am hoping and praying 60 games will get played, and that there will be playoffs. But this infectious rage that is going on might dampen that. And then....not sure what 2021 will bring the Reds.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Mark17

No. The short season is a joke. To qualify for the batting title, I believe a batter needs 3.1 PA per scheduled game. A 50 game season therefore requires just 155 PA. So what will happen is, somebody is going to draw 30 walks, get 50 hits, and be the first .400 hitter since Teddy Ballgame. That would be the ultimate mockery of the sanctity of that record.

While agree on the “season” stats and that no record broken should be acknowledged, i am excited to have something to follow.

[commishbob]

I'm ambivalent. I enjoy baseball but I haven't followed MLB very closely in quite a few years. Plus, the season hadn't started. I might feel differently if we had seen an Opening Day and some good storylines and then had it shut down.

There are two aspects of baseball I do miss...first, we always make a couple of trips to minor league parks around Texas. That started when my kids were young and we would drive down to the Rio Grande Valley and take in independent Texas-Louisiana League games. We've kept up the tradition with trips to the AA and AAA franchises around the state. The teams have worked hard to make game nights fun. Not gonna happen at all this year. The minors are in trouble I think.

I also normally go to college games at the University of Houston (my school) and San Jac JC which is just a few minutes away from me. I was able to see some games before it all shut down but I was looking forward to more.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Just like how World War 2 impacted some career stats of great players

so will Covid....50 games this year..and next year can also be impacted...also catching the virus will take a player out of 14 games or so plus he has to worry about the normal injuries

5 years from now we may have some players that are within 5 or so homers of a key number or from a player above them that 'what if' played 100 more games..would of hit those key HOF number or a number above the next guy who is in the HOF..

[Orioles1954]

I'm an Orioles fan an 100% don't care. Won't watch a game and the World Series Champs this year might claim it's a real title but all will know it's nothing more than an asterisk.

[packs]

The more I think about it the more it seems like a huge mistake. The CBA is up next year and if a player gets sick and (god forbid) passes away or someone in their immediate family passes away because the commissioner compelled a season, I think baseball will have a hard time coming back long-term.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by packs

The more I think about it the more it seems like a huge mistake. The CBA is up next year and if a player gets sick and (god forbid) passes away or someone in their immediate family passes away because the commissioner compelled a season, I think baseball will have a hard time coming back long-term.

No one gives a shit. There’s money to be made. America.

[packs]

Originally Posted by conor912

No one gives a shit. There’s money to be made. America.

People definitely do care and if a player passes away you can be sure the union will care.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

People definitely do care and if a player passes away you can be sure the union will care.

If its one player that passes away , in the context of life, i dont think thats a big deal. Its very possible in their age group many would get the virus and one would die, maybe even more.

One can argue that without the lack of structure and all of the corona testing and safeguards in baseball, that the players on the whole would be at more risk at home

We all know how 18-25 year olds are acting now. Going to parties and events that they would not be doing so easily if under the eye of the league

Just saying its not all in a vacuum.

[packs]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

If its one player that passes away , in the context of life, i dont think thats a big deal. Its very possible in their age group many would get the virus and one would die, maybe even more.

One can argue that without the lack of structure and all of the corona testing and safeguards in baseball, that the players on the whole would be at more risk at home

We all know how 18-25 year olds are acting now. Going to parties and events that they would not be doing so easily if under the eye of the league

Just saying its not all in a vacuum.

That is a pretty generalized view of an entire population of people from all over the world (baseball is an international sport) and one that won't apply to any player or coach or manager or team employee not 18 to 25. Also you're missing the larger point that the season was compelled by the commissioner and not at the players behest.

Not really sure what you're saying re: a player passing away from the corona virus during the season isn't a big deal. Who isn't it a big deal to?

[todeen]

All I know is that MLB looks like chumps compared to NBA, with all their arguments over money. Did you see NBA is paying Disney $150 million to use their facilities without fans, and expect to lose $1 billion or more financially. WOW

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[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

If its one player that passes away , in the context of life, i dont think thats a big deal. Its very possible in their age group many would get the virus and one would die, maybe even more.

One can argue that without the lack of structure and all of the corona testing and safeguards in baseball, that the players on the whole would be at more risk at home

We all know how 18-25 year olds are acting now. Going to parties and events that they would not be doing so easily if under the eye of the league

Just saying its not all in a vacuum.

Funny story, since COVID-19 is so funny: A University campus takes up half of our census tract. Rich kids from out-of-state, paying a fortune to go to a private university. So they've been partying since early March when this all began - never stopped. There are four party houses within a block of us, and all the kids just go to whichever one is currently hosting a party.

So a few days ago they stopped partying - no more beer pong in the front yard, no more groups of kids sun-bathing, no more groups of drunks wandering past our house from one party to another.

So I notice our 'infected' numbers, which had been at 0-5 for three months, go to 5-9. The next day they are 10-14. Two days later they are 15-19. Still no kids anywhere to be seen. Yesterday I'm out walking the dog and as we walk past the biggest of the party houses, I see a kid sitting on the porch. I ask him if someone got sick. He says: "Yeah, I think so."

Me: "I guessed as much, since the parties stopped."
Him: "Yeah, that was a smart move."

So think about it: You've got 50-100 college kids all going to the same parties, one gets sick, and it must be bad because asymptomatic rich college kids don't get tested. You're a college kid and you find out about it. Are you going to the next party?

Bodies in the street. Only way this ever ends. I'm so proud of our future leaders.

[G1911]

Not much anymore. NL DH, runners starting on 2B in extra innings, millionaires whining they don't make enough millions to play baseball, or that they have to play too many games to rake in their $10,000,000 a year. It's getting less fun with every year.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by packs

People definitely do care and if a player passes away you can be sure the union will care.

I had the owners in mind when i made this comment.....and the owners own the commissioner. That said, I’ll double down and say that a rich guy seizing an opportunity to get richer by putting others’ health and well-being at risk is an American tale as old as time.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

That is a pretty generalized view of an entire population of people from all over the world (baseball is an international sport) and one that won't apply to any player or coach or manager or team employee not 18 to 25. Also you're missing the larger point that the season was compelled by the commissioner and not at the players behest.

Not really sure what you're saying re: a player passing away from the corona virus during the season isn't a big deal. Who isn't it a big deal to?

spare me the one life argument.

we could all stay locked down and save 100,000 lives...but we arent for lots of reasons as you know

people are working right now at jobs that are at much more risk to their health than the ball players.

the ballplayers dont have to play if they dont want to. ian desmond has opted out and so will many others......so again if one ball player does i dont see it as a big deal to MLB......they dont have to play if they dont want to and they dont need the money compared to the public at large...

look how many players are already testing positive for the virus and they havent even started the season...if its the same percentage getting the virus when the season started and someone dies.....someone could of easily died without playing as they are still catching the virus anyway...plus what if the percentage catching the virus is less compared to what the percentage is now..

you going to blame mlb for the death when the testing percentage of positive is lower than what it is before they arrived to camp?

if negligence and we have a whole team flare up..thats a different story...

[G1911]

With daily testing, these millionaires in the prime of life and in excellent physical condition without, by and large, relevant pre-existing conditions, and the best medical care in the world, who have the option of opting out, can go hit a baseball.

[MRSPORTSCARDCOLLECTOR]

Originally Posted by todeen

All I know is that MLB looks like chumps compared to NBA, with all their arguments over money. Did you see NBA is paying Disney $150 million to use their facilities without fans, and expect to lose $1 billion or more financially. WOW

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Much more looking forward to the NBA this year. When I was a kid baseball ruled over the NBA and NFL, now as I gotten older I rather watch the NBA and NFL over the MLB, even with that I am glad the MLB is back. I am definitely not a fan of that runner on second base in extra innings game though. That`s going a little too far.

[Butch7999]

For us, the '94 strike was crushing but mainly because of what it may have cost our Expos. The record-book shredding
steroid-fueled home run derbies of the later '90s were, to us, nauseating and far more off-putting.
We slowly came back to the game and, desperate by this point to see any major league sports, were happy to
hear that even a drastically shortened season would take place. Then we learn it's universal DH, runners on 2nd
to start extra innings, pitch clocks, mandatory batters faced, and whatever other youth-league perversions of
the game they can jam in there. Hey, will the mercy rule be in effect? As far as we're concerned, whatever it is
they're starting, it ain't baseball. Find a gym for everybody and have 'em play Indoor Baseball, that'd be
just as "interesting." Or, with no spectators anyway, any softball field and fifty games of slo-pitch. At least
there'd be a novelty factor.
And dadgummit, you kids stay off our lawn, by cracky...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

With daily testing, these millionaires in the prime of life and in excellent physical condition without, by and large, relevant pre-existing conditions, and the best medical care in the world, who have the option of opting out, can go hit a baseball.

they have it easy compared to nurses who make a pittance and risk their lives everyday and really dont have a choice to opt out

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

For us, the '94 strike was crushing but mainly because of what it may have cost our Expos. The record-book shredding
steroid-fueled home run derbies of the later '90s were, to us, nauseating and far more off-putting.
We slowly came back to the game and, desperate by this point to see any major league sports, were happy to
hear that even a drastically shortened season would take place. Then we learn it's universal DH, runners on 2nd
to start extra innings, pitch clocks, mandatory batters faced, and whatever other youth-league perversions of
the game they can jam in there. Hey, will the mercy rule be in effect? As far as we're concerned, whatever it is
they're starting, it ain't baseball. Find a gym for everybody and have 'em play Indoor Baseball, that'd be
just as "interesting." Or, with no spectators anyway, any softball field and fifty games of slo-pitch. At least
there'd be a novelty factor.
And dadgummit, you kids stay off our lawn, by cracky...

Theres a reason most baseball video games have a 'arcade mode' so this season is arcade mode..is what it is ..lots of things in 2020 are not going to be normal.....lets hope its just 2020..

[todeen]

Will anyone watch if Trout opts out? Would he opt out for half the season? He has a baby due in August.

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[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by todeen

Will anyone watch if Trout opts out? Would he opt out for half the season? He has a baby due in August.

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I havent seen trout play in years and i watch at least 100 games year ..hes on the west coast and in the AL...

[packs]

I can’t believe there are so many people who fall into the owner’s narrative trap about the players being “millionaires who play a game”.

The owners are BILLIONAIRES who don’t want to pay people to work. How can anyone be on the side of people who by and large inherited their fortunes and never worked a day in their life.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I can’t believe there are so many people who fall into the owner’s narrative trap about the players being “millionaires who play a game”.

The owners are BILLIONAIRES who don’t want to pay people to work. How can anyone be on the side of people who by and large inherited their fortunes and never worked a day in their life.

How do they not want to pay people to work? What player is working and not getting paid? They don't want to pay players not to play, actually....

It's not that I'm on the Billionaires side, it's that in the constant public money fighting between millionaires and billionaires, they all seem whiny and unappealing.

[packs]

The A’s are valued at over 2 billion dollars and as soon as the minor league season was cancelled they stopped paying the players $400 a week so they could save 1.3 million dollars. The owners only reversed course after the league made enough noise about it. Why should the players not want to get paid when all the owners want to do is screw them and make it look like the players are the bad guys?

The owners originally wanted to pay the players one third of their salary regardless of how many games they played.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

The A’s are valued at over 2 billion dollars and as soon as the minor league season was cancelled they stopped paying the players $400 a week so they could save 1.3 million dollars. The owners only reversed course after the league made enough noise about it. Why should the players not want to get paid when all the owners want to do is screw them and make it look like the players are the bad guys?

The owners originally wanted to pay the players one third of their salary regardless of how many games they played.

This is decidedly NOT "...who don’t want to pay people to work". They didn't pay some minor leaguers who didn't work. I stand by the facts in my statement, and my opinion of them. Again, I did not say anything positive about the owners, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Chuck9788]

I just see it as a big tournament, (below) should be the World Series rings that they give out.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I can’t believe there are so many people who fall into the owner’s narrative trap about the players being “millionaires who play a game”.

The owners are BILLIONAIRES who don’t want to pay people to work. How can anyone be on the side of people who by and large inherited their fortunes and never worked a day in their life.

Not everyone buys into the class envy thing.

Now that you've finished running down people who have more than you (because they have more than you,) go out and buy a lottery ticket.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is decidedly NOT "...who don’t want to pay people to work". They didn't pay some minor leaguers who didn't work. I stand by the facts in my statement, and my opinion of them. Again, I did not say anything positive about the owners, so I'm not sure what your point is.

It definitely is. Being a minor league player isn’t like having your job. When the industry shuts down they’re still expected to maintain a certain physical condition, train and follow all team rules in the meantime (rules that may limit your employment opportunities depending on what activities your contract allows). However the team didn’t want to offer any salary for that commitment or resources. The team can’t offer team facilities and they didn’t offer to pay for private instruction either. They expect you to do all the things you would have for no pay and at your own expense AND to find a way to make a living outside of baseball on top of it.

When it comes to the major league players, the owners wanted to pay a 54 game salary regardless of how many games were played. If the season was 100 games, they wanted to pay for 54. The players are only now getting paid a prorated salary for every game they do play because of the Union. Not because the owners wanted to pay people to work.

Please offer any counterpoint of your choosing that demonstrates the players are asking for things you wouldn’t ask for at your own job.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Not everyone buys into the class envy thing.



Now that you've finished running down people who have more than you (because they have more than you,) go out and buy a lottery ticket.

Stereotypes are always dangerous. There are some of the rich who are trust fund babies and living it up. Some worked really hard for their money. Some screwed others to make their riches. Others still are philanthropists.

But I think a stereotype that is true is that the rich stay rich by doing everything they can to keep their money. Some argue that's sound business operation. Others argue they're heartless.

Full disclosure: My wife and I are strong union supporters. I don't believe in socialism, but laws helping redistribute wealth are needed. The good ol days - 1950s and 60s - had a higher level of wealth located within the middle class, and also had higher taxes. Many want America to be more economically like then, but they aren't willing to recreate the conditions that allowed the US to flourish.

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[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Not everyone buys into the class envy thing.

Now that you've finished running down people who have more than you (because they have more than you,) go out and buy a lottery ticket.

I don’t know what this comment means. If you think players are millionaires playing a game aren’t you denigrating people for having more than you?

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I didn't think I would care. I hate the rule changes, I don't respect the commissioner at all. However I'm looking forward to the games!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

It definitely is. Being a minor league player isn’t like having your job. When the industry shuts down they’re still expected to maintain a certain physical condition, train and follow all team rules in the meantime (rules that may limit your employment opportunities depending on what activities your contract allows). However the team didn’t want to offer any salary for that commitment or resources. The team can’t offer team facilities and they didn’t offer to pay for private instruction either. They expect you to do all the things you would have for no pay and at your own expense AND to find a way to make a living outside of baseball on top of it.

When it comes to the major league players, the owners wanted to pay a 54 game salary regardless of how many games were played. If the season was 100 games, they wanted to pay for 54. The players are only now getting paid a prorated salary for every game they do play because of the Union. Not because the owners wanted to pay people to work.

Please offer any counterpoint of your choosing that demonstrates the players are asking for things you wouldn’t ask for at your own job.

The part that is a factual claim is completely false. They are not and didn't try too refuse to pay players who are working. Some teams are not paying players that are not working. This is how it works in every industry. If I am an hourly employee, I still have to remember how to do my job and remain in physical condition good enough to do that job. The company does not pay you for the time spent exercising if your job has physical demands. Like 25% of this country was recently furloughed from their jobs too, they did not get paid, because they were not working. Your statement is factually wrong.

They are asking for things I wouldn't. Heck, I took a mandatory paycut happily a couple months ago, and then I issued myself a bigger paycut than I had to take so we could slightly improve our odds of survival as a company, and give a little more to my employees that make less and need it more immediately than I do. Revenues are down everywhere, not just for MLB that can't sell tickets anymore and missed almost 2/3 of the season completely. Most of us, who make a hell of a lot less, are in a similar boat, or much worse. The difference is they still have a mansion at the end of the day, and I'm not griping about my salary for the year.

Again, I'm not praising the owners or saying they are right. I said I find the constant griping from players to the media about how they don't make enough millions and are oppressed by the owners to be obnoxious. The owners are obnoxious too, but they aren't being rolled out as victims and they aren't the ones we go to the games to watch. I also said the owners did not attempt not to pay players who are working. That is not an opinion, that part is 100% true. I guess I should not be surprised a fact is controversial because one doesn't like it.

You are making claims that are 100% factually wrong, and then arguing against a perspective I did not express and do not hold rather than the one I stated. Makes this rather stupid and pointless.

[packs]

To each their own. There could have been a 114 game season but the owners didn’t want to pay for it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I’m glad we’re talking about facts. All the way back on May 31 the players wanted to play 114 games with no salary cuts. The owners wouldn’t agree to terms. On June 1 the owners said they would pay a prorated salary for a 50 game season so they could save money. There’s your concrete example of not wanting to pay people to work.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between a pay cut or prorated salary and not paying people? The owners wanting to pay them less is entirely different from your claim that they tried not to pay people who are working (which is federally illegal even). This is the stupidest conversation we could possibly have. Good luck to you.

[Republicaninmass]

Why were some NHL's teams demonized for not paying their arena employees?


Because some did?

[packs]

I don’t know how you strayed so far into HR. I’m saying the season is what it is because the owners didn’t want to pay for what it could have been. That is what I mean by not wanting to pay people to work.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by packs

To each their own. There could have been a 114 game season but the owners didn’t want to pay for it.

I actually agree with the owners that a shorter season was most safe. The longer the season the greater risk of the season stopping due to another round of quarantine.

But I was disappointed the owners asked for additional paycuts beyond the prorated salaries. I understood why they asked, but I supported the players stance that the issue was already settled.

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[Hot Springs Bathers]

The owners wanted a short season in hopes of getting the playoffs done. Their TV contracts pay more for the post-season because it is basically national telecasts than they make on the regular season. THE MLBPA pointed this out in their arguments.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

To each their own. There could have been a 114 game season but the owners didn’t want to pay for it.

theres a reason they didnt want to pay for it they thought they would be losing money...just because someone has money doesnt mean they have to pay you 40 dollars for a can of soda....

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

But I think a stereotype that is true is that the rich stay rich by doing everything they can to keep their money.

I'm not rich but I save my money too. That's a bad thing?

Originally Posted by todeen

Full disclosure: My wife and I are strong union supporters. I don't believe in socialism, but laws helping redistribute wealth are needed.

I bolded the part where you advocate stealing from people simply because they have a lot.

If people build wealth by obeying laws, playing by the rules, then what they have belongs to them, and you and others need to learn to keep your greedy* hands off it.

*greed: Wanting to take what others have, because it's easier than earning it yourself.

[Cliff Bowman]

I don't know about MLB, but after what I just heard about the NBA I am through with it and if what I hear about what the NFL is planning pans out I will be through with it. I have been an avid fan of all three since the late 70's. packs, you can have them.