Recent PCL postcards

[Vintagecatcher]

Over the last few months, there have been some really cool PCL postcards that have shown up on eBay.

Earlier tonight, a postcard of a single player ended. If I had to guess, I believe this is most likely Drummond Brown. I don't recall ever seeing any other postcards of individual PCL players circa 1910.

For those who missed the earlier PCL postcards, here are scans of the auction that closed earlier tonight of the single player, as well as scans of several team PCL postcards.


Enjoy,

Patrick

[bijoem]

Patrick,

I won the Portland Beavers card you posted....


I find it interesting that the Portland Beavers card, the Vernon Tigers card, and this Chicago White Sox card were all taken on the same field.....





(The too cool White Sox card is not mine)


Also... if anyone is able to identify the players in the Portland Beavers card - I would appreciate the info!

[asoriano]

The RPPC's look like they were taken by a recognizable photographer; possibly Dingman.

Edited to add: I once owned that White Sox RPPC and thought all of the backgrounds looked strangely familiar. Very cool!

[Vintagecatcher]

Joe,

Nice pickup on the Portland Beavers postcard. As you know it's tough to win any rare PCL items, becuase of the one individual that has the "win at any cost" attitude.


Enjoy,

Patrick

[Kawika]

Row 1: Charlie Armbruster, Gus Fisher (?), ?, George Ort, ?
Row 2: Vean Gregg (????), ?, ?
Row 3: ?, Bill Rapps (?), ?, ?, Buddy Ryan, Walt McCredie

That Seals pc is creeping me out. Reminds me of the human experiment scene in A Clockwork Orange.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Joe,

Nice pickup on the Portland Beavers postcard. As you know it's tough to win any rare PCL items, becuase of the one individual that has the "win at any cost" attitude.


Enjoy,

Patrick

well, that night on ebay.... he ran up against someone a little crazier than he is.


honestly - I don't know much about the PCL items.... this is the first in my collection. Who is the 'win at any cost' person?

[asoriano]

I'll say it's veangregg (huge PCL buyer).

[prewarsports]

I know it can get frustrating when the same person wins items you want over and over again, but you certainly cant blame a guy for being passionate about what they collect. Veanngregg on ebay is one of the nicest guys in the hobby, and he is also a Mariners fan so you know he cant be bad!

Rhys

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I know it can get frustrating when the same person wins items you want over and over again, but you certainly cant blame a guy for being passionate about what they collect. Veanngregg on ebay is one of the nicest guys in the hobby, and he is also a Mariners fan so you know he cant be bad!

Rhys

I wouldn't blame him at all.

I admire anyone who has that kind of focus and passion.
Good for him. He must have a collection that he truly enjoys.

[Dan Carson]

What year is the Portland postcard?

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Veangregg on ebay is one of the nicest guys in the hobby.
Rhys

I heartily second that. I met him at a SABR event last summer and a nicer guy in or out of the Hobby you are not going to meet. Talking cards with him while watching a game at a smalltime minor league ballpark was a very nice way to pass an afternoon.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Dan Carson

What year is the Portland postcard?

Dan,

It is not postally used so it is hard to say for sure.

I believe it is 1910ish.

The printed AZO stamp and the split back on the back would allow it to be anywhere from 1907-1918.

[Rob D.]

I've rarely met a collector who begrudges or is truly jealous of another person's collection. Usually it's when a person repeatedly has the need to tell the collecting community how important and impressive his collection is that problems arise.

[Vintagecatcher]

Although I'm not sure if I have ever bid against Veangregg, I surely have heard others lament that they believed Veangregg probably was the winner on many a rare PCL listing. I admire any collector for being passionate about their collection.

Patrick

[Kawika]

If I'm right about Armbruster (and that catcher's mitt at his feet is a good sign) then that limits it to either 1909 or 1910. If I'm right about V. Gregg (which I'm waiting for Mark F. to tell me I need new glasses) then it would be 1910, his only year with Portland.

[slidekellyslide]

If I remember correctly Dave Eskenazi has a whole group of single player rppc's of the 1912 Seattle team...of course they weren't PCL then, they were Northwestern League, but still...he gave me the link to them on the internet, and I can't seem to find it right now. Maybe he'll see this post and re-send me the link.

[yazfan08]

My aggresive bid for that Portland postcard still came up over $1000 short.

This was my most recent pickup in this category:

[FrankWakefield]

Just a few weeks ago I lost on a Zamloch postcard that he'd sent to his brother. His team was on the front... a great item. Who among us wouldn't be "Veangregging" if we were able. In a way it is good that the stuff is being accumulated by someone who obviously cares so much, all of it together. I tip my hat to him, whoever he is.

And that's a nice ballpark postcard, YazFan.

[bmarlowe1]

bijoem: Also... if anyone is able to identify the players in the Portland Beavers card - I would appreciate the info;
Kawika: If I'm right about Armbruster (and that catcher's mitt at his feet is a good sign) then that limits it to either 1909 or 1910. If I'm right about V. Gregg (which I'm waiting for Mark F. to tell me I need new glasses).....

---------
David - maybe you just need to clean them a little
I believe it is 1909. Major leaguers include:
Spec Harkness - back row far left
Otis Johnson - back row 3rd from right
Buddy Ryan - back row 2nd from right
Walt MacCredie - back row far right
Ivy Olsen (not Gregg) - mid row far left
Charlie Armbruster - front row far left
Jack Fornier - front row 2nd from left
Jack Graney - front row middle

Ivy Olsen:

[Kawika]

All those guys are on the 1909 roster; Harkness, Johson, Fournier and Graney gone in 1910. 1909 it is. I was trying to match faces with Obaks etc so there was a lot of leeway, and I was trying real hard for Ivy Olsen to be Vean Gregg. In matters like this it is always reasonable to defer to Mark's expertise.

E99 Olsen per vcp.com; Gregg foto from web

[bijoem]

Mark -
Thanks for the info!

Would you know the others in the postcard?

So far we have (I put David's foggy glasses observations in parentheses):


Spec Harkness, (Bill Rapps?), ???, Otis Johnson, Buddy Ryan, Walt McCredie

Ivy Olsen, ???, ???

Charlie Ambruser, Jack Fornier, Jack Graney, (George Ort?), ???

[bmarlowe1]

Based on the 1911 Zeenut (the only image of Rapps that I have handy) - I don't see Rapps in the photo.

Spec Harkness, ???, ???, Otis Johnson, Buddy Ryan, Walt McCredie

Ivy Olsen, ???, George Ort

Charlie Ambruster, Jack Fornier, Jack Graney, Dick Breen, Al Carson

[matthew]

Back row, 3rd from left - could that be Jess Garrett?

Who else loves the way old man McCredie is wearing his hat?

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by Kawika

I heartily second that I met him at a SABR event last summer and a nicer guy in or out of the Hobby you are not going to meet. Talking cards with him while watching a game at a smalltime minor league ballpark was a very nice way to pass an afternoon.

Wait a minute David. You met me at a SABR event last summer. You talked cards with me while watching a game at a smalltime minor league ballpark. You mean I'm veangregg??!!??

Max

[bmarlowe1]

[quote=matthew;784800]Back row, 3rd from left - could that be Jess Garrett?


Matthew - you are right, Garrett for sure. And one left of him is Roy Willett. One more to go.

[bijoem]

very cool - we are down to one player.

Here is an up-close zoom of the unknown player:

[Kawika]

Everybody! Max is veangregg and is a prince of a fellow.
Any chance it's Bill Speas?

[Jacklitsch]

David...that's a hit!!

Speas for sure.

[bmarlowe1]

David - based on your card and a really crappy photo of Speas in the 1911 Spalding Guide - it can be Speas (it sure does look like him), but I am not absolutely sure. I don't like to decide based on drawings. I'll make some inquiries, but in the mean time, if anyone has any other good images of him (drawings or not), please post.

[Kawika]

The players indicated in red are ones that have been positively ID'ed so far. Of the rest Speas, Fisher and Mott played the most games and were more likely to have been in the photo although there are several others it could be. Images on Obaks of Fisher and Mott are pretty wishy-washy and I don't have access to any of their Zeenuts. Found one very small photo of Speas when he was managing in Canada in the 1920s and he doesn't look enough like our guy to be sure. Jaw looks too square. So I am not betting the farm on Speas.

[bmarlowe1]

"So I am not betting the farm on Speas."

I would. At least I would be very surprised if it wasn't Speas.

[rhettyeakley]

This Speas doesn't help too much as it is a side view...


Here is the aforementioned Fisher...

[bmarlowe1]

Thanks Rhett. I'm confident that guy isn't Gus Fisher (2 photos on left):

[rhettyeakley]

Mark, I agree, it obviously isn't Fisher based on the Zeenuts and your photos, but his name was brought up so I posted them along with the Speas.

The player doesn't look an awful lot like the photos of Speas provided thus far, so I am a bit skeptical. This guy looks really familiar to me but I just can't place the face right now--I hadn't seen this thread until now so I'll try to dig around more when I get home from work.

-Rhett

[edjs]

Well, something to revive this thread. Here is another copy of the 1909 Portland postcard.

[brianp-beme]

Reading over the thread, the middle player in the middle row was not concretely identified, but Bill Speas name was thrown out. Here is the closeup photo of Bill Speas from the postcard and his 3 Obak cards (not mine). I would vote that it is him.

Brian

[Jobu]

I am going to get wild here and maybe ID the player top row, third from the left.

The Dingman White Sox, Vernon, and Portland RPPC photos were taken at the same park. This makes sense as the White Sox held spring training in Los Angeles (Chutes Park) in 1908 and in San Francisco (Recreation Park) in 1909-1910, so there were plenty of chances.

As to the Portland guy in the top row third from the left, he immediately strikes me as being Ed Walsh. Maybe he pitched for them that day so that the White Sox got to face a top arm? You will notice in the White Sox Dingman RPPCs below, Walsh is in one of them but does not seem to be in the other with the White uniforms. Maybe he was on Portland for a few hours that day? I also included a side-by-side pic of Walsh with Mr. ???.

[brianp-beme]

Ed does look similar, but here is a T4 of Roy Willett (mine...not!). Roy looks like a dead match to me.

Brian

[Jobu]

Well shit Brian, you nailed it! Willett was on Portland for Part of the 1909 season (and oddly enough on Vernon for the rest of his career.) I wish I had come across T4 that before I worked on all that other jazz.

[edjs]

Thank for the responses guys. By the mark above his head on mine, I’m assuming this once belonged to George Ort.

[slidekellyslide]

Glad you got that one Ed. My buddy in Kansas had that..I saw that he had listed it without knowing what team it was so I let him know. It already had bids and he could not amend the auction. I told him he should end it and relist it with a proper title, but he said he thought he would do okay on it because two people had already tried to get him to end it. I guess he did okay.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Glad you got that one Ed. My buddy in Kansas had that..I saw that he had listed it without knowing what team it was so I let him know. It already had bids and he could not amend the auction. I told him he should end it and relist it with a proper title, but he said he thought he would do okay on it because two people had already tried to get him to end it. I guess he did okay.

He did just fine. He would not have done better at auction. And, if I may say, I was not one of those that reached out and tried to get him to end early. I just top bid it. I would love to ask him where he got it.

Do you still have that big photo that is nearly like this?

[seattlerainiers]

Nice grab, Ed...!

Here's another view of the 1909 Beavers, a cabinet photo from the estate of Al Carson (bottom row, far right) with period player IDs.

There are 15 players, vs. 14 on the postcard. Fournier and the unidentified player (middle row, middle) are not present but Ed Kennedy (top right), Tommy Murray (middle row, far left) and the nefarious Tom Seaton (middle row, second from left) are. A few other players are moved around (Willett, Ryan, Graney).

Speas is top row middle, in the sweater.

Fun stuff!

[edjs]

Originally Posted by seattlerainiers

Nice grab, Ed...!

Here's another view of the 1909 Beavers, a cabinet photo from the estate of Al Carson (bottom row, far right) with period player IDs.

There are 15 players, vs. 14 on the postcard. Fournier and the unidentified player (middle row, middle) are not present but Ed Kennedy (top right), Tommy Murray (middle row, far left) and the nefarious Tom Seaton (middle row, second from left) are. A few other players are moved around (Willett, Ryan, Graney).

Speas is top row middle, in the sweater.

Fun stuff!

Is that the same photo that was found, I believe by Dan, a few years back?

[seattlerainiers]

Originally Posted by edjs

Is that the same photo that was found, I believe by Dan, a few years back?

Nope. Different item, different image.