Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Finally, if you're so upset about this purported non-scandal -- you claim that it's not a big deal because no lawsuits have been brought -- why don't you bring one on behalf of the many victims who have surely flocked to you due to your posts which reflect your legal acumen? Surely by now many victims who have lost more than 10K on trimmed cards would have called your mom's house looking for you.

I am not in the inner circle like you. You said yourself that who wouldnt sue for cards that are valued at $10,000 or less insinuating that there were no card trimming issues over $10,000.

Then a bunch of new cards showed up and you were quiet until now. You also said the Gehrig card was being 'taken care of'

We can only go on what you say. All you appear to do is bully and call names

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Jake, can you try English? "are you insinuating i a a jew." Did you have a stroke while writing this? And as for being a Jew, I'm damn proud of it, it's no insult from me. The suggestion that you are still working out of your mom's house though I noticed you ignored.

You could of said 'do you still work on your grade school desk?' May of been better insult than touching on religion. A lot of other ways to say it as well. Just saying

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I am not in the inner circle like you. You said yourself that who would sue for cards that are valued at $10,000 or less insinuating that there were no card trimming issues over $10,000.

Then a bunch of new cards showed up and you were quiet until now. You also said the Gehrig card was being 'taken care of'

We can only go on what you say. All you appear to do is bully and call names

Look, I can't keep explaining basic stuff for you. That's on your teachers, your parents who gave you that subpar DNA, it's not my job. I insinuated nothing of the sort. Your inference is impacted by your lack of reading comprehension skills. All I said is that the great majority of victims in both the Mastro scandal and the present card alteration scandal were not damaged enough to bring an expensive litigation. This is a fairly obvious conclusion. As for bullying and calling names, I actually managed to ignore your prior 20 insults on the board until today. If you don't want me pointing out the obvious about you I would suggest stop insulting me on the board. Unlike you, I don't whine about it, I just respond.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Finally, if you're so upset about this purported non-scandal -- you claim that it's not a big deal because no lawsuits have been brought -- why don't you bring one on behalf of the many victims who have surely flocked to you due to your posts which reflect your legal acumen? Surely by now many victims who have lost more than 10K on trimmed cards would have called your mom's house looking for you.

Apparently no one lost more than 10k according to you. My thoughts were everyone is satisfied/not worth suing so its a non issue.

You said the scandal has rocked the hobby. Yet zero lawsuits has been my point. You have not disputed that no lawsuits have been filed.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Look, I can't keep explaining basic stuff for you. That's on your teachers, your parents who gave you that subpar DNA, it's not my job. I insinuated nothing of the sort. Your inference is impacted by your lack of reading comprehension skills. All I said is that the great majority of victims in both the Mastro scandal and the present card alteration scandal were not damaged enough to bring an expensive litigation. This is a fairly obvious conclusion. As for bullying and calling names, I actually managed to ignore your prior 20 insults on the board until today. If you don't want me pointing out the obvious about you I would suggest stop insulting me on the board. Unlike you, I don't whine about it, I just respond.

What insults are you referring too? Are you really comparing what you write as insults to whatever you are referring too.

Lets see these 20 insults that shook you so much you had to respond today

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Apparently no one lost more than 10k according to you. My thoughts were everyone is satisfied/not worth suing so its a non issue.

You said the scandal has rocked the hobby. Yet zero lawsuits has been my point. You have not disputed that no lawsuits have been filed.

I actually think you have brain damage. You can't even form a coherent thought. Do you understand that not a single litigation was brought against Mastro? Even though he caused millions in damages? I only counterclaimed him when he sued my client. Not a single litigation was brought against the man and his co-conspirators who stole millions from collectors, went to prison and paid ZERO DOLLARS back in restitution. By your logic, all of his victims were satisfied and made whole -- even though almost none of them were.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

What insults are you referring too? Are you really comparing what you write as insults to whatever you are referring too.

Lets see these 20 insults that shook you so much you had to respond today

Look, I recognize you have no work to do, no clients, no future, no hope -- but some of us actually earn a living practicing law. You can sit here and point out that the card alteration scandal has not rocked the hobby at all and I'll go back to actually working. Good luck getting out of mom's house someday.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I actually think you have brain damage. You can't even form a coherent thought. Do you understand that not a single litigation was brought against Mastro? Even though he caused millions in damages? I only counterclaimed him when he sued my client. Not a single litigation was brought against the man and his co-conspirators who stole millions from collectors, went to prison and paid ZERO DOLLARS back in restitution. By your logic, all of his victims were satisfied and made whole -- even though almost none of them were.

Sounds like a lawsuit, Im sure i can come up with examples where millions of dollars were stolen and there were lawsuits. The one case you cite is a bit of a small sample size and there was a lawsuit ...

In this trimming issue..cards have traded hands with many collectors and auctions houses and third party graders over the years. People on this board have argued over who would collect from who and down the chain. Many possibilities for lawsuits and countersuits besides just the last purchase buyer versus the seller.....thus far no lawsuits

[iwantitiwinit]

This back and forth between you two while amusing is a bit much dont you think.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Look, I recognize you have no work to do, no clients, no future, no hope -- but some of us actually earn a living practicing law. You can sit here and point out that the card alteration scandal has not rocked the hobby at all and I'll go back to actually working. Good luck getting out of mom's house someday.

Right, I am like Will Farrell on Wedding Crashers...

go earn a living..no reason to keep commenting with me....

still waiting for those 20 insults you said i made.....oh thats right you have to go back to work......

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

This back and forth between you two while amusing is a bit much dont you think.

Yeah I agree.....would be nice to get a straight answer someday though instead of hurling insults...guess he charges by the hour

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right but according to the new Peter C., all of these cards value in question are under $10,000.00 so who would bother in filing a lawsuit so nothing to see here

Completely gratuitous post Jake, had nothing whatever to do with my post about the extent to which BODA is likely to be able to out altered cards which it turn was a response to a question. You took a shot at Jeff with the Peter C. reference so you clearly wanted to invite yet another round, why I don't know.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Completely gratuitous post Jake, had nothing whatever to do with my post about the extent to which BODA is likely to be able to out altered cards which it turn was a response to a question. You took a shot at Jeff with the Peter C. reference so you clearly wanted to invite yet another round, why I don't know.

Eh, he as well as YOU have called me that and he was the original instigator on this and was first on this thread to invoke this name. If he didnt think he was Peter C, why would he care. If its such an insult not to be said, why did he call me that. (i dont view it as insult to me because i am not him but maybe he does which 'invited another round'

is that one of the 20 insults he was referring too?...how many insults from him do you think he made about me? Let me guess, he didnt insult me at all, however saying Peter C. thats fighting words...lol

As far as the $10,000 issue, i brought it up many times, its not like hes scared to post a defense, he never corrected me. He also disappeared when new cards with issues over $10,000 were outed.

However. I never corrected him about living on my mom's couch either though...so let me deny that one ..though i dont think its a bad thing, all depends.

So, ok he agrees there many cards with issues over $10,000.00. There was a mentioning of small claims and too much time and effort to sue so i thought the point was there was not enough value for whoever made those points.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Eh, he as well as you have called me that and he was the original instigator on this and was first on this thread to invoke this name. If he didnt think he was Peter C, why would he care.

is that one of the 20 insults he was referring too?...how many insults from him do you think he made about me? Let me guess, he didnt insult me at all, however saying Peter C. thats fighting words...lol

Jake...I don't think you were even on this board back in the era of Peter C...but I can assure you Lichtman bears no resemblance to him in any way shape or form...so you calling him this just to provoke him is ridiculous.

And this back and forth is useless and a waste of everyone's time...take it off board if you want to continue this nonsense.

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Adams Jr., that is. Posted without comment.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1333320

I had taken a break from collecting and was living in California in 1988. I walked into a card shop and bought an SCD. I had never seen one before and found weekly auctions run by Johnny Adams Jr. I was high bidder on a NM/MT+ 1962 Bob Gibson and A NM/MT 1963 Stargell Rookie. Never thought much about trimming since I collected in the mid- late 70's. In the early 1990's I sent both off to PSA and both were deemed trimmed. Lesson learned. Fast forward to 2015 or so and I actually get a call at my shop from Johnny Adams Jr. looking for collections. I told him what I thought of him and why. He replied that he never trimmed a card, only pushed down a corner or two and taken wax off. He said he would stop by and make it up to me. Of course he never did. 31 years ago he was pushing trimmed cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bbeck

I had taken a break from collecting and was living in California in 1988. I walked into a card shop and bought an SCD. I had never seen one before and found weekly auctions run by Johnny Adams Jr. I was high bidder on a NM/MT+ 1962 Bob Gibson and A NM/MT 1963 Stargell Rookie. Never thought much about trimming since I collected in the mid- late 70's. In the early 1990's I sent both off to PSA and both were deemed trimmed. Lesson learned. Fast forward to 2015 or so and I actually get a call at my shop from Johnny Adams Jr. looking for collections. I told him what I thought of him and why. He replied that he never trimmed a card, only pushed down a corner or two and taken wax off. He said he would stop by and make it up to me. Of course he never did. 31 years ago he was pushing trimmed cards.

Some of these guys partner with guys who actually do the work and don't do it themselves, but of course are equally culpable.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Jake...I don't think you were even on this board back in the era of Peter C...but I can assure you Lichtman bears no resemblance to him in any way shape or form...so you calling him this just to provoke him is ridiculous.

And this back and forth is useless and a waste of everyone's time...take it off board if you want to continue this nonsense.

I didnt call him that to provoke him. He invoked his name first, why dont you call him out for that. I called him that after he called me that.. Yet it invokes him? I have no resemblance to Peter C either i assume

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You're Peter Chao. I don't think you're malignant but you proudly wave around your ignorance as if it is supposed to impress someone.

Sometimes it makes sense to listen to people who know more than you on an issue, who have actual experience on an issue, who are involved in the issue.

Again, and I'll type this slowly for you: litigation does not need to be brought in order for victims to be made whole. The number of lawsuits brought is not directly related to the harm perceived or suffered. Yes, this is grade school common sense of which non-lawyers on the board seem to understand well.

The fact that I have a client involved would suggest that I would be looking to downplay what occurred here. I am not. For an obvious reason. Again, and s l o w l y: what occurred here rocks the foundation of the hobby. Lawsuits or no lawsuits will not change that.

Here is the first time Peter C is invoked by him. It made no sense then and makes no sense now. Thats why to show how absurd the comment was i started calling him Peter C to show how silly his comment was and still is. However, it was only in response to his original comment that you can see here.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are millions of graded cards and a significant portion likely is altered, although what that number is is anyone's guess. They (BODA) cannot possibly review even a fraction and for most of those no prior scan is going to exist. They've done a remarkable job to make as many connections as they have, but the vast vast majority of altered cards are IMO not capable of being outed by this process.

I agree that BODA has done an outstanding job and that the problem is vast rather than isolated. Meanwhile PSA is still playing the fiddle while the hobby is burning up in smoke.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Here is the first time Peter C is invoked by him. It made no sense then and makes no sense now. Thats why to show how absurd the comment was i started calling him Peter C to show how silly his comment was and still is. However, it was only in response to his original comment that you can see here.

Why do you insist on making this thread which I started to identify outed cards all about yourself?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why do you insist on making this thread which I started to identify outed cards all about yourself?

My comments are clearly not all about myself, however if someone tries to bully with insults, i am not sure why you would not let me respond. You dont have a problem with someone hurling insults on your thread?


I have a number of posts just about the outed cards, he is the only one that cares to make insults and you have no problems with his comments apparently. Others have commented that if the cards or hobby interests are questioned, all we hear about is being called an idiot.

Yes, takes two to tango..however whatever i am guilty of, he is more than equal. Lets this be the end of it.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

My comments are clearly not all about myself, however if someone tries to bully with insults, i am not sure why you would not let me respond. You dont have a problem with someone hurling insults on your thread?

Yeah, because you keep calling him out!

This whole thing between you and Jeff reminds me of elementary school back in the 1990s. There was this tough Polish immigrant by the name of Benek who I got along very well with. Now one Canadian-born dude (can't remember his name - let's call him Chris) had some beef with him. They fought in the soccer field and Benek beat the sh*t outta' him. Chris never forgot about it. A week later Chris called him out again. Benek tried to ignore him, but he wouldn't stop, so then Benek kicked his a** again during recess, but nope, it still wasn't over for Chris. I even remember one Saturday afternoon, Chris and a few buddies went to Benek's house (near the school) and he called him out. Benek was in the middle of his lunch, so he put down his sandwich and went outside, and yep, he kicked the sh*t outta' him again. This went on for the whole year! LOL!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Yeah, because you keep calling him out!

This whole thing between you and Jeff reminds me of elementary school back in the 1990s. There was this tough Polish immigrant by the name of Benek who I got along very well with. Now one Canadian-born dude (can't remember his name - let's call him Chris) had some beef with him. They fought in the soccer field and Benek beat the sh*t outta' him. Chris never forgot about it. A week later Chris called him out again. Benek tried to ignore him, but he wouldn't stop, so then Benek kicked his a** again during recess, but nope, it still wasn't over for Chris. I even remember one Saturday afternoon, Chris and a few buddies went to Benek's house (near the school) and he called him out. Benek was in the middle of his lunch, so he put down his sandwich and went outside, and yep, he kicked the sh*t outta' him again. This went on for the whole year! LOL!

Cool, poor Chris, sounds like he was a bully though. (he came with a bunch of supporters against one guy who was by himself)....you should of picked up a bunch of Brady RCs in 1990...

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Cool, poor Chris, sounds like he was a bully though.....you should of picked up a bunch of Brady RCs in 1990...

I had no money back then. My dad had a very good job, but he only gave me $10 a week. I hated it back then, but today I thank him for it. It's never good to spoil your kids. I have one daughter now and I don't spoil her.

And I always liked Peyton Manning more than Brady. His SP Authentic rookie is one of the best-looking cards I have ever seen. It reminds me of the 1952 Topps Mantle. You see the sky in the background and he is looking up at the heavens.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

This back and forth between you two while amusing is a bit much dont you think.

Loving the ignore function on this site

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Yeah, because you keep calling him out!

This whole thing between you and Jeff reminds me of elementary school back in the 1990s. There was this tough Polish immigrant by the name of Benek who I got along very well with. Now one Canadian-born dude (can't remember his name - let's call him Chris) had some beef with him. They fought in the soccer field and Benek beat the sh*t outta' him. Chris never forgot about it. A week later Chris called him out again. Benek tried to ignore him, but he wouldn't stop, so then Benek kicked his a** again during recess, but nope, it still wasn't over for Chris. I even remember one Saturday afternoon, Chris and a few buddies went to Benek's house (near the school) and he called him out. Benek was in the middle of his lunch, so he put down his sandwich and went outside, and yep, he kicked the sh*t outta' him again. This went on for the whole year! LOL!

I am a little older, I was thinking early 70's. Kinda like 2 fine young gentlemen wearing their protective headgear while riding on a small sunshine coloured bus while arguing about the sound the colour green makes when you lick it.

[perezfan]

The "Battle of the Chaos" is pretty entertaining, and a few of Jeff's posts made me laugh out loud today. But it does distract and dilute the importance of this thread.

So perhaps a new thread could be devoted to the net54 version of the Hatfields and McCoys.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Cool, poor Chris, sounds like he was a bully though. (he came with a bunch of supporters against one guy who was by himself)....you should of picked up a bunch of Brady RCs in 1990...

That would have been tough given that they were issued in 2000.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That would have been tough given that they were issued in 2000.

Yeah I know, you had one for sale so thats why brought it up

anyway, they both still in the 20th century...so i count 1990-2000 as the same..all in the 20th century..

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right, I am like Will Farrell on Wedding Crashers...

go earn a living..no reason to keep commenting with me....

still waiting for those 20 insults you said i made.....oh thats right you have to go back to work......

that's number 21

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I had no money back then. My dad had a very good job, but he only gave me $10 a week. I hated it back then, but today I thank him for it. It's never good to spoil your kids. I have one daughter now and I don't spoil her.

And I always liked Peyton Manning more than Brady. His SP Authentic rookie is one of the best-looking cards I have ever seen. It reminds me of the 1952 Topps Mantle. You see the sky in the background and he is looking up at the heavens.

I think he's wondering why the top of his card has been shaved off by an 1/8 of an inch. that's what it looks like to me. Just sayin.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The Stooges get in the act.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1333693

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Stooges get in the act.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1333693

Nuck! Nuck! Nuck!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Stooges get in the act.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1333693

In addition to the Stooges, that thread reveals an active 1960 Spahn PSA 10 with a $37,500 BIN plus several final sales from PWCC (even after the 2019 National). It appears they're still a black hole for doctored cards.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Stooges get in the act.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1333693

Jerry, who are these Stooges you speak of?

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Loving the ignore function on this site

Ah yes! I just discovered this myself. In case anyone wants to try it out here are the instructions:

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

In addition to the Stooges, that thread reveals an active 1960 Spahn PSA 10 with a $37,500 BIN plus several final sales from PWCC (even after the 2019 National). It appears they're still a black hole for doctored cards.

Can put that Spahn on the Mt. Rushmore....

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthnmVDnEEs

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthnmVDnEEs

I am considering a new thread with this video as the first post. It is another eye opener. Kudos to the BODA team over there. (*again) . My guess is the FBI will get to the bottom of it and in the end some fraudulent people/companies will be held accountable. It won't be quick but it will be thorough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How does the Hendrix song go? If 6 was 9 I don't mind I don't mind.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6028

[Rhotchkiss]

Leon, that would be a great thread. It would be even better if there was constructive discussion and the usual angry responders didn’t chime in with the same, obvious drivel that they post time and again (I imagine that for me, half the thread’s responses will be blanked out thanks to my ignore user list).

Anyway, I think it could make for a great thread.

Meanwhile, does anyone know how to get ahold of the guy who the made video? If so, can you pm me contact info - I would like to encourage that person to please continue and posting those videos.

[swarmee]

He just posted on Blowout in the thread. So you can find him there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

[SOX75]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Meanwhile, does anyone know how to get ahold of the guy who the made video? If so, can you pm me contact info - I would like to encourage that person to please continue and posting those videos.

Hi, that would be me. I'm on this board, but don't post very often. I've appreciated reading the dialogue and learning about how these altered cards are discovered. You can PM me here if you'd like to talk more. I do plan on continuing to make these videos, but they are obviously very time intensive and difficult to balance with the rest of my life. The support the previous videos have gotten has been encouraging me to continue.

Keith

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by SOX75

Hi, that would be me. I'm on this board, but don't post very often. I've appreciated reading the dialogue and learning about how these altered cards are discovered. You can PM me here if you'd like to talk more. I do plan on continuing to make these videos, but they are obviously very time intensive and difficult to balance with the rest of my life. The support the previous videos have gotten has been encouraging me to continue.

Keith

Thank you Keith, for creating that great video. We have been saying for months now, that less than 2% of consumers are even aware of the scandal, fraud, deception and corruption. It's the biggest scandal ever to rock the hobby, and no one knows about it! Your video will provide much needed help to spread the word.

Please keep the videos coming if at all possible. There is so much more to expose. Just today, a large batch of new altered PSA high-numbered examples were outed on Blowout... and this isn't slowing down anytime soon. Still just the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks again for the great work being done by the people on Blowout, and by yourself!

[Leon]

I am passing on my favorite card in the hobby in a 7 holder because of f'd up looking top and bottom borders. As Scott B and I just spoke about at a local card show, KNOW the cards and their characteristics. If it looks short with pointy borders, even if in a TPG holder, pass. SO the lesson is KNOW your cards and its series characteristics. IF you see an E220 with almost no borders, it is trimmed...tpg or not. Same with others. If you see 2 (or more) short borders and especially if they are pointy cornered cards....run away and fast.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So here's a question for discussion -- what, if anything, are people doing differently in light of the scandal? How are you attempting to protect yourself against altered cards?

[Leon]

Thank you very much!!

Originally Posted by SOX75

Hi, that would be me. I'm on this board, but don't post very often. I've appreciated reading the dialogue and learning about how these altered cards are discovered. You can PM me here if you'd like to talk more. I do plan on continuing to make these videos, but they are obviously very time intensive and difficult to balance with the rest of my life. The support the previous videos have gotten has been encouraging me to continue.

Keith

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL that's a big slice.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...2&postcount=86

Keep denying, Orlando and Sloan.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by SOX75

Hi, that would be me. I'm on this board, but don't post very often. I've appreciated reading the dialogue and learning about how these altered cards are discovered. You can PM me here if you'd like to talk more. I do plan on continuing to make these videos, but they are obviously very time intensive and difficult to balance with the rest of my life. The support the previous videos have gotten has been encouraging me to continue.

Keith

Hi Keith. Thanks for the reply and nice to meet you. I am out and about, but will PM you later. I really appreciate your videos and think they are a great service to our hobby - your videos and the work by BODA are/is important. I would like to help anyway I can.

Ryan

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthnmVDnEEs

Nice link! Thanks my handsome friend