1921 Shotwell Babe Ruth on News

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

I watched 8 minutes of that truly shitty video he had linked to the article and I hate myself for watching that much. Just hearing him talk and act like he has ANY clue about cards is an absolute joke. I hope this guy gets stranded on an island somewhere and doesn't come back. A true idiot.

7 minutes and 2 seconds longer than I could make it. Didn't even get inside the store.

[chalupacollects]

9 kids and 200 million cards? Must be a billionaire we've never heard of...lol

[x2drich2000]

I made it to 10:40 but couldn't get back the reference to Star Wars from the 60's

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Pottsville Maroon circa 1922

The Chicago Maroons played in the Western Association in 1888, and several of their players are in the N172 set.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The Chicago Maroons played in the Western Association in 1888, and several of their players are in the N172 set.

I was going with early NFL

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I was going with early NFL

Barry got it. It is an old, long running joke going way back on the forum....

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Amazingly Mr. Wilcox has reached out to me.

Are you serious!?

And yeah I'm with all of you. I thought for sure the article had to be fake news or a prank and had to share. 200 million cards! Stands to leave the auction house with anywhere from $1 million to $40 million! Terrible yet hilarious at the same time. If anything hopefully it provided a good Monday morning chuckle for everyone.

[Tabe]

What a fun thread. Highly entertaining read, that's for sure.

Out of all the exaggerations in this thread and the attached articles, I think the worst was Leon saying the guy would make a 250% profit if he sold the card he bought for $2 for $5. C'mon, Leon, that's 150% profit, not 250%!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Tabe

What a fun thread. Highly entertaining read, that's for sure.

Out of all the exaggerations in this thread and the attached articles, I think the worst was Leon saying the guy would make a 250% profit if he sold the card he bought for $2 for $5. C'mon, Leon, that's 150% profit, not 250%!

Well somehow the discount from $8 to $2 for the purchase is 80%, so by that monkey math...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by kateighty

Are you serious!?

And yeah I'm with all of you. I thought for sure the article had to be fake news or a prank and had to share. 200 million cards! Stands to leave the auction house with anywhere from $1 million to $40 million! Terrible yet hilarious at the same time. If anything hopefully it provided a good Monday morning chuckle for everyone.

This guy (the card's owner) has made it his life's work the last few months of getting this story into print anywhere he can. If you google Shotwell Ruth you will find a dozen, maybe more articles about him from the last several months.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

This guy (the card's owner) has made it his life's work the last few months of getting this story into print anywhere he can. If you google Shotwell Ruth you will find a dozen, maybe more articles about him from the last several months.

Agreed. This guy just wants to be famous. The baseball cards are secondary.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I was going with early NFL

I assumed the reference was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8GGpYFmkYI

[Sean]

He plans to sell some of his cards through Heritage Auctions? Now I'm going to stop by the Heritage booth at this year's National and ask to see the Dale Ball collection.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

This guy (the card's owner) has made it his life's work the last few months of getting this story into print anywhere he can. If you google Shotwell Ruth you will find a dozen, maybe more articles about him from the last several months.

A modern version of the long con? My guess he figures someone with deep pockets and poor research skills will eventually make a 6 figure offer.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

This guy (the card's owner) has made it his life's work the last few months of getting this story into print anywhere he can. If you google Shotwell Ruth you will find a dozen, maybe more articles about him from the last several months.

Um duh Scott. I'm well aware. Seriously though, I've read every single article on this guy since his big find. Part of why I came back to net54 after a several year hiatus. When this stuff first happened I was all "damn I bet my net54 guys have something to say about this!" so I started reading more and eventually came back after getting way too many blank stares from my friends and family whenever I brought this up as well as anything old school baseball. Try duckduckgo it's way better than google.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by kateighty

Um duh Scott. I'm well aware. Seriously though, I've read every single article on this guy since his big find. Part of why I came back to net54 after a several year hiatus. When this stuff first happened I was all "damn I bet my net54 guys have something to say about this!" so I started reading more and eventually came back after getting way too many blank stares from my friends and family whenever I brought this up as well as anything old school baseball. Try duckduckgo it's way better than google.

You forgot to put "big find" in the sarcasm font

[callou2131]

What is it with nevada. This guy must be Jason Mars Cousin or something.

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You forgot to put "big find" in the sarcasm font

My bad. Still getting used to being back here. It's tough trying to catch up with everyone again!

[Orioles1954]

I discovered the first cataloged Shotwell in 2008 of Baby Doll Jacobson. He could start with me.

[rhettyeakley]

In addition to James if he needs to reach out to someone I have done perhaps more research and work on the E121 family of sets than anybody on earth... probably more than anyone should. I am open to anything he would have questions about.
-Rhett

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Will pass the info along, thanks guys!

[ruth_rookie]

So the owner of the “card” allows the paper analysis company to remove a portion of the back of the card for testing, a rather large chunk of cardboard to prove it’s genuine from the era (early ‘20’s). Now who in their right mind would agree to that? We all know what paper loss, even on the back the size of a tack head as I saw in the video, does to the final grade. You have just rendered what may have been a 6 or 7 (if it was genuine....LOL) to a 2 tops due to the paper loss. I’m sorry, but if I have a rarity like this supposedly is, no way in hell anyone is removing a portion of my card to test the paper. Even if it is authentic, the last thing I’d do is allow paper to be removed so it could drop in grade by 5 or 6 full points. Why not just send it in to a TPG who can authentic without damaging it? This guy is a clown, and somehow convinced the media to drink his Koolaid!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Jason, I said all that in my second message to the writer and also pointed out that it was a complete waste of time as no collector, dealer or auction house cares about the results of that test. So he seriously damaged the card for absolutely no reason. Only two people would do that. One who knows he has a counterfeit on old paper, or a complete idiot. Can't make up my mind which we have in this instance.

[Leon]

Scott, I respectfully disagree. I think he knows it's counterfeit as well as being a maroon. It isn't one or the other it's both.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Jason, I said all that in my second message to the writer and also pointed out that it was a complete waste of time as no collector, dealer or auction house cares about the results of that test. So he seriously damaged the card for absolutely no reason. Only two people would do that. One who knows he has a counterfeit on old paper, or a complete idiot. Can't make up my mind which we have in this instance.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Leon

Scott, I respectfully disagree. I think he knows it's counterfeit as well as being a maroon. It isn't one or the other it's both.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by kateighty

Just saw the recent Babe thread and thought I'd bump. Anyone have any updates on this goof? I haven't read anything about it in a few weeks, thought I'd check up, and found this:
https://abc30.com/society/visalia-co...ction/5300382/

Don't even get me started.

In this story they show (at 1:57) a raw T206 Wagner in a beat-up toploader that Ball said he was going to take to Heritage. It's only on screen for a couple of seconds, but it looks obviously fake. It's just mentioned in passing, like it's no big deal. The other allegedly high-end cards he shows the reporter, including a 33 Goudey Ruth, are also raw, except for a couple like an Exhibit Mantle. Is this clown serious? I assume Heritage laughed him out of the building if he really did go there, but of course there won't be a story about that.

[trdcrdkid]

This article mentions that Ball has a publicist (unsurprisingly) and reveals his apparent game plan for making money off the card without getting it graded:

http://www.thesungazette.com/article...ankee-stadium/

"Ball’s card authentication and subsequent auction house jockeying has only cemented his plans to what he is actually going to do with it. Between finding the card and verifying its value, Ball knows he wants to retain its rights, but he also wants the fans of baseball lore to enjoy it.

Coming from upstate New York, Ball grew up a Yankees fan. So finding one of the rarest cards in baseball history is only fitting for the Visalia resident. More fitting though, is mounting the card next to Yankee Stadium’s statue of Babe Ruth.

“At least that is where it’s supposed to be,” Ball said. “That’s one of my fondest desires. I look forward to taking it up there with my wife and kids, mounting it next to the statue, and giving that statue a big hug.”

For now, Ball is allowing his publicist and the Yankees to decide his compensation and when they’ll be able to get the card to its rightful place to be regarded."

[barrysloate]

Heritage Auctions will be very interested in having him leave the premises as quickly as possible.

[Promethius88]

Not saying it is, just asking a question. "The Dale Ball with the "alleged" Ruth is 49. The Dale Ball in this article was 42 in 2012. Same person??

https://hanfordsentinel.com/news/lem...9bb2963f4.html

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Not saying it is, just asking a question. "The Dale Ball with the "alleged" Ruth is 49. The Dale Ball in this article was 42 in 2012. Same person??

https://hanfordsentinel.com/news/lem...9bb2963f4.html

I assume so. The ages match, and Lindcove (where the 2012 Dale Ball was living) and Visalia (where the 2019 Dale Ball lives) are both in Tulare County, California, about 15 miles apart.

Text of the article:

18 arrested in Palace drug bust
Suspects from Tulare County found packaging hash oil in three hotel rooms
By Kevin Kennedy Dec 22, 2012 2

LEMOORE — Kings County Sheriff’s deputies and Narcotic Task Force investigators arrested 18 Tulare County residents in connection with a drug bust at the Tachi Palace Hotel and Casino Friday.

Deputies investigating reports of suspicious activity in the hotel Friday morning identified three hotel rooms where large amounts of hash oil were being packaged for sale. They called in the task force, which seized several thousand prepared containers containing about two grams of hash oil each as well as several pounds of the concentrated marijuana with a combined street value of about $350,000.

A rented moving van found in the casino parking lot contained materials used to make hash oil.

The investigation led officials to serve a search warrant in Exeter, where they found more hash oil, several thousand dollars and packaging materials similar to those found at the hotel. They arrested Dale Ball, 42, of Lindcove and transported him to the Kings County Jail on suspicion of various felony charges related to the manufacture and sale of hash oil. Bail was set at $605,000.

Arrested at Tachi Palace and booked into the county jail in connection with the case were 12 Visalia residents: Josh Harris, 22; Rickey Burkhart, 21; James Lee, 19; Matthew Molina, 23; Ian McLean, 24; Steven Mount, 21; Spencer McCoy, 22; Tiffany Huckabay, 18; Donald Williams, 22; Joshua Kehoe, 23; Zachary Rasmussen 19; and James Williams, 21. Also arrested were Tommy Montalvo, 21, and Trinaty Fletcher, 19, both of Goshen; Andres Pena, 23, of Lindsay; Ethan Dunn, 20, of Porterville; and Teresa Carner, 29, of Exeter. Bail on most of the suspects was set at $595,000.

Sgt. Jeff Torres of the task force said the suspects had rented the rooms the night before and appeared to be about halfway through the packaging process. He described Ball as “one of the main players in getting this all together.”

“It was a pretty major operation they had going on there,” said Torres. “The Palace security was really attentive and a great help in us making these arrests.”

The reporter can be reached at 583-2423 or kkennedy@HanfordSentinel.com.

[Snapolit1]

Can't believe we are still talking about this wingnut.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by callou2131

What is it with nevada. This guy must be Jason Mars Cousin or something.

Nevada is Florida without water...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

Scott, I respectfully disagree. I think he knows it's counterfeit as well as being a maroon. It isn't one or the other it's both.

Well I wasn't sure he was smart enough for the "on old paper" part. Maybe I underestimate him?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Rhett & Orioles54, he would indeed love to talk to both of you. Can you PM me with your contact info?

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

So the owner of the “card” allows the paper analysis company to remove a portion of the back of the card for testing, a rather large chunk of cardboard to prove it’s genuine from the era (early ‘20’s). Now who in their right mind would agree to that?

Exactly what I was thinking. And why I felt compelled to share this gem of an update! Also, once again, makes you wonder why a collector, with "200 million cards" some graded by TPGs, would drive to an antique dealer in Beverly Hills for authentication when he could have kept driving for another hour and a half or so straight to PSA.

[ctownboy]

I hope the Yankees are aware this joker wants to include them in this mess.....

David

[kateighty]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Not saying it is, just asking a question. "The Dale Ball with the "alleged" Ruth is 49. The Dale Ball in this article was 42 in 2012. Same person??

https://hanfordsentinel.com/news/lem...9bb2963f4.html

Oooh good find! Can't be certain though. Maybe Mr. Wilcox could investigate further and let us know. If it is it really makes you wonder. Look at the age difference between the hash oil Dale Ball and the twelve Visalia residents and others who were booked. A good 20 years apart at least. That Dale Ball knew exactly what he was doing. Here's to hoping Wilcox gets to the bottom of this!

[ruth_rookie]

Originally Posted by kateighty

Also found this article https://auburnpub.com/lifestyles/it-...a4e293c64.html and took note of the graded cards in the picture:

The two PSA graded cards in his picture:
#23266801 Ruth Bulgaria Sport Photo - Three out of four PSA Auction Prices realized are PWCC. Sold TWICE in 2019 (3/12/19 and 5/8/19). Four sales overall since 2017.
#42799168 - W551 Walter Johnson - eBay sale 3/14/19

Interesting to say the least.

Thanks for the updates on this story, Scott and Kat. I’m very interested to see the outcome of this guy’s shenanigans. Laughable how he throws in a fake T206 Wagner with the ever-so-rare ‘71 Killebrew. And I can’t even put into words how gorgeous that autographed Cobb ball is. Doesn’t look anything like the PSA/DNA Cobb check I have on the wall of my man cave. Please keep us posted on any new developments.

Better yet, if anyone knows this guy please reach out to him and ask him to become a 54 member. I’d love to hear the story unfold straight from the horse’s mouth.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

Better yet, if anyone knows this guy please reach out to him and ask him to become a 54 member. I’d love to hear the story unfold straight from the horse’s mouth.

Or from another orifice of the horse.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Or from another orifice of the horse.

Ear?

[kateighty]

Thanks for the props Jason.

[Promethius88]

I need an update….any update on this HOT story. I love a good dumpster fire and this is great. He's on my love/hate level of Ken Bone but completely on the complete sh*tbag side of the line.

[Orioles1954]

https://auburnpub.com/news/local/pub...home-top-story

The reporter reached out to me a couple of weeks ago and did a great job in verifying and trying to “get it right.” I have no idea what Mr. Ball’s motives are but it’s nice to see his fake material exposed.

James F.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Nice to see behind the scenes work pay off for a change!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

There are a lot of those people. The reporters for instance.
I used to work for a newspaper. Their first duty of a reporter is to expose truth and tell the whole story. It’s sad because it’s obvious that these reporters did no due diligence in their effort. It would have been great for the reporter to have empowered themself to ask an intelligent question instead of allowing the guy with the card to run the story. They could have exposed him as a fraud and a fool instead of the headline “It’s real”. We depend on reporters to get it right - not to mail in a half assed job.

Took two tries but I think Dave Wilcox pretty much nailed it the second time around.

[CobbSpikedMe]

This is great that someone in the media finally reports some truth to a story like this and actually talks to people in the hobby about it. I'm so happy they questioned Dale's claims and reported the true findings of a little bit of investigating instead f just reporting the story Dale told them as if it was just fact.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

https://auburnpub.com/news/local/pub...home-top-story

The reporter reached out to me a couple of weeks ago and did a great job in verifying and trying to “get it right.” I have no idea what Mr. Ball’s motives are but it’s nice to see his fake material exposed.

James F.

I like to read these kinds of things carefully. Egomaniacs often end up unwittingly showing their true colors if you let them talk long enough:


Port Byron native Dale Ball spent the first half of 2019 making headlines after buying what he claims is a million-dollar Babe Ruth baseball card for $2.

Additionally, after interviewing a few collectors and following up with Ball, The Citizen found several inconsistencies in his story. Those inconsistencies suggest that not only is his Ruth indeed fake, but that Ball has consciously deceived the media into reporting otherwise. Ball, for his part, rejected the accusation in a July 25 phone interview. He doesn't need publicity or money, he said.

In his July 25 interview with The Citizen, Ball dismissed collectors like Feagin and Russell as jealous.

"People want to be negative because they can't be happy for someone," he said. "I love it, because all it does is stir up drama and I get more publicity."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That was definitely one of my favorites Mark.

[Promethius88]

Love that he outed this clown. I hope that other media outlets that have given him publicity pick this up and get their original stories straight.

[Orioles1954]

The jealousy bit was funny to me. While I work in the industry I do not collect or have hobby interests any longer. Nothing to be jealous of.