Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[Bigdaddy]

So what happens to all the 'altered' cards that have been identified? Do they get the Scarlet Letter - 'A' for Altered - stamped on them? Do they continue to reside in their current holders? I would assume that if (and I don't see this happening anytime soon) PSA buys back the cards, then would they regrade them with an 'Altered' designation on the flip. And sell them back into the market?

If so, what would keep someone from breaking one out and resubmitting? Maybe ruffing up the edges a bit and looking for a numerical grade?

I believe Operation Bullpen items got stamped and donated to kids (at least the bats and balls). I assume the paper items were destroyed.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So what happens to all the 'altered' cards that have been identified?

I asked that as one of about 100 questions I submitted for PWCC to answer in the Blowout thread in the Member Feedback section. I presume PSA will hold onto them currently in case the FBI comes knocking.

[swarmee]

Here's a new wrinkle:
https://twitter.com/brentandbecca/st...22959170560000



Happened 10 years ago at a company that presumably gives out 9.5 grades, per the link. Basically, "Spend a bunch of money with us, and I can promise you great grades that get better over time." Brentandbecca is a card seller that busts hundreds of cases of product annually and sells sets and inserts/autographs from those online. Doesn't grade because he didn't like being promised grades.

This was mentioned in the thread about the former Beckett employee that is continually getting BGS 10 Black Labels on such a high percentage of his submissions that it would be statistically impossible. For those that think there is no discernible difference between a PSA 9 and 10, BGS scores cards on a 9, 9.5, 10 subgrade system in four different components: centering, surface, edges, and corners. If your card gets an average of 9.5 on those subgrades, it gets a 9.5 Gem Mint. If it has three 10 subgrades, and one 9.5, it gets a standard Pristine 10. If all four subgrades are BGS 10
"quality", it gets a Pristine 10 BLACK LABEL.

Brian Gray of Leaf Trading Cards, checkered history he has as well, currently employs the former Beckett employee, and intends to look into the submissions for any funny business. But an audit of BGS's process in giving out grades to customers is coming.

[Peter_Spaeth]

D304 Wagner 2.5 to 4.5

Now working to regain your trust.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=100

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.psacard.com/fees/

CARD AUTHENTICATION & GRADING
PREMIUM ELITE *$5000
Any card with a declared value of $100,000 or higher must be submitted at this service level.

PREMIUM PLUS *$3000
Maximum declared value of $99,999

PREMIUM *$1000
Maximum declared value of $24,999

WALK-THROUGH *$500
Maximum declared value of $9,999

SUPER EXPRESS *$200
Maximum declared value of $4,999

EXPRESS *$75
Maximum declared value of $1,999 and all T3s must be submitted at this service level or higher.

REGULAR *$20
Maximum declared value of $499

The really interesting thing is that not all cards are $50K cards or $1K cards. There is a wide mix of values of these cards. So if Moser or PWCC were submitting them properly, they would be in multiple orders all the way up and down this list. So the theory that 1 rogue grader would get all of Moser's submissions and pass the majority of those altered cards seems pretty shot. And the theory that this is only happening because of the 2018 grading backlog and the hiring of new employees this winter caused it, well many of the Certs found already were from 4+ years ago.

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

It's more a liability issue of having an expensive card in their possession and it getting lost or damaged. Do you insure your Yugo and your Ferrari for the same price?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

Higher fees for more expensive stuff is pretty standard for authentications in other hobbies too.

If the expert is a real expert, the authenticity end of things can be very fast in a more informal setting. The guy who looked at a couple stamps for me at the 2006 international show took less than a minute for both. He didn't grade, but recommended getting a formal certificate for one but not the other. (One a fairly expensive and totally genuine stamp, the other an india paper proof that had been altered to appear to be the issued stamp (perforations added) a difference of a couple hundred at catalog value, and way more with the apparent centering. That centering was actually his first point against as they rarely come that well centered, and sell for multiples of catalog value.

[barrysloate]

I think the grading companies are well aware that they are minting money for their customers, so wouldn't these higher fees be more in line with "we're making a lot of money for you, therefore we want a piece of the action too."

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by irv

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

They charge more because if they screw up (like put a numerical grade on an altered card) they're on the hook to return more money if a buyer uses their guarantee.

[dwinters]

started with autographed cards....then high end (and lower) cards....and then autographs?

imagine if psa is this bad, how many fake autos are certed by them?

psa authentication is worthless.

[CMIZ5290]

Whether we want to admit it or not, this is where we are. NOWHERE!! I have been on the board for 10 years and the topics of Rick Probstein and Brent Huigens always, always, always keep coming up, since day one...And not a freaking thing gets done, period, end of story. This is a corrupt hobby, and the rich just keep on keepin on getting rich....We have thread after thread, but what in the Hell gets done? NOTHING Rick Probstein is the biggest dick in the Hobby, and he loves it....Brent is a chronic liar and he's used to it by now and laughs....

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

That is also one of the things that has stopped me from getting my more valuable cards graded.
My Mantle is likely worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 dollars but it would only take anyone of us or the TPG's about 30 seconds to determine that it is either going to get a PSA 1 or authentic grade?

I've never understood the higher fees for the more expensive cards. Do they actually spend more time evaluating them than they do less expensive cards, and if so, where is that line drawn?

VERY NICE! Have Scissorhands do some recoloring and trimming and you'll be around 15-20K. Send it in to brent mastro, he'll walk you through it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

D304 Wagner 2.5 to 4.5

Now working to regain your trust.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=100

A true crime of the worst degree.