"RESTORED" Wagner - how should we feel about this as collectors?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by bounce

Some good comments and observations so far.

i was surfing around the internet this weekend, and saw several PSA cards marked
AUTHENTIC
ALTERED

Including things like markers to corners, color touch ups, etc.

I realize PSA put "RESTORED" on the Wagner, but wondering if most wouldn't agree that the card wasn't also "ALTERED"?

It was certainly recolored, along with the extensive work on the back.

I'd sure like to hear some commentary from PSA on how they ultimately made this flip determination.

You can’t restore the card without altering it. Restored is the only term you need.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You can’t restore the card without altering it. Restored is the only term you need.

"ALTERED" seems to carry a completely different connotation to it than "RESTORED" does, no?

If something is done to a card to make it look better than it did before, why wouldn't RESTORED apply almost every time?

Just wondering how exactly how that determination is made and when it changes from one to another.

[Fred]

At what point do you call a "restoration" something else? What's a term for a "total rebuild" (or complete overhaul) of the card? Adding borders and most likely taking the back from another card and overlaying seems to be a bit more than a "restoration" job. "Altered" seems a bit mild.

[Republicaninmass]

Frame off restoration

[Throttlesteer]

More like putting a Ferrari hood on a Pontiac Fiero.

[ClementeFanOh]

You're right on target, Anson!

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Fred

At what point do you call a "restoration" something else? What's a term for a "total rebuild" (or complete overhaul) of the card? Adding borders and most likely taking the back from another card and overlaying seems to be a bit more than a "restoration" job. "Altered" seems a bit mild.

The way I read the restoration invoice was that most of the
back is original and the scrapbook paper was soaked off. You can see
some of the stains on the restored example that match the original.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The way I read the restoration invoice was that most of the
back is original and the scrapbook paper was soaked off. You can see
some of the stains on the restored example that match the original.

Heck, we can't even trust the restoration invoice.... before/after pictures seem to do a good job.

[dabigyankeeman]

Hard to believe a card could be restored like that. One day nobody will be able to tell a restored card from a real one, then what happens to value and who would want to buy them.

At what point too does an item become NOT the item anymore? If you own an axe used by George Washington and its made up of two pieces, the metal cutting piece and the wood handle, and you first replace the metal cutting piece, then replace the wood handle, is it still George Washingtons axe? I know this is the original card modified, but one day it will be a 99% new, then what is it?

[Fred]

Leon,

Can you please post a link to the item in the auction.

Thanks!

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by bounce

"ALTERED" seems to carry a completely different connotation to it than "RESTORED" does, no?

If something is done to a card to make it look better than it did before, why wouldn't RESTORED apply almost every time?

Just wondering how exactly how that determination is made and when it changes from one to another.

As I understand it, restoration is bringing the card back towards it’s original state. Trimming, for example, may be done to improve its’ appearance, but it, in and of itself, is not restoration.

[slightlyrounded]

These flips are getting ridiculous....

[alywa]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

These flips are getting ridiculous....

I think you won the internet for today