NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2017, 04:15 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





TheT206 set includes exactly 48 Southern League (SL) subjects....34 of which were printed with 3 different backs (brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350).
And, the other 14 of these cards were printed with just OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Checklist of the 48 subjects in the SL series is broken down with respect to the cards with HINDU vs. the no HINDU cards........

34 subjects with brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Thornton
Violat


14 subjects with only OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


Stay tuned....additional info regarding these Southern Leaguer's will follow. Including the Brown OLD MILL backs of some of the SL cards.
And, collecting the "Quadruplicate" sub-set of the twenty Southern Association cards.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 07-10-2017 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2017, 04:55 PM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,819
Default

Interesting Ted. I'm looking forward to reading your theory about why some SL were not printed with a Hindu back.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2017, 10:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Hi Sean

The timeline of the print runs of the 48 subjects in the Southern League (SL) series tells us the story.

Circa..Summer > Fall 1909, the 1st press run of the SLer's (34 subjects) were printed with HINDU backs.

Circa..late 1909 > early 1910, the OLD MILL press runs started and the following 14 subjects were added
to the SL series (total = 48 subjects)......

Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King (Danville)
Lentz (Little Rock)
Orth (Lynchburg)
Rockenfeld (Montgomery)
Seitz (Norfolk)
Westlake (Danville)

Texas League

Bastian (San Antonio)
Molly Miller (Dallas)
Carlos Smith (Shreveport)
Stark (San Antonio)
Thebo (Waco)
Foley White (Houston)

Circa..Spring 1910, the PIEDMONT 350 cards were printed on all 48 - SL. Surveys indicate that these 14
additional SL subjects were were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs in greater quantity than those of the
original 34 subjects were.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 07-11-2017 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Modified statement.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-08-2017, 10:07 AM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,227
Default

Hi Ted,

I have always thought that the print run of the latter 14 SLers started/ended at the same time. Two groups: 34 150/350s and 14 350-onlys. What is your reason for parsing out the 6 Texas Leaguers?

Scot
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-08-2017, 11:24 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Hi Scot

My recollection is, that years ago, you and I came up with 3 print runs on the So. Lgrs.

I've searched for this info in the Net54 archives, but I haven't any luck finding our discussion.

Am I imagining this, or did we arrive at such a timeline in the printing of these 48 cards ?


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-08-2017, 09:11 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Scot

My recollection is, that years ago, you and I came up with 3 print runs on the So. Lgrs.

I've searched for this info in the Net54 archives, but I haven't any luck finding our discussion.

Am I imagining this, or did we arrive at such a timeline in the printing of these 48 cards ?

TED Z

.
Hi Ted,

Heitman thought the 6 Texas Leaguers formed their own group but they have always been grouped with the other 8 non-Hindu SLers in my mind.

Scot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:25 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Sean

The timeline of the print runs of the 48 subjects in the Southern League (SL) series tells us the story.

Circa..Summer > Fall 1909, the 1st press run of the SLer's (34 subjects) were printed with HINDU backs.

Circa..late 1909 > early 1910, the OLD MILL press runs started and the following 14 subjects were added
to the SL series (total = 48 subjects)......

Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King (Danville)
Lentz (Little Rock)
Orth (Lynchburg)
Rockenfeld (Montgomery)
Seitz (Norfolk)
Westlake (Danville)

Texas League

Bastian (San Antonio)
Molly Miller (Dallas)
Carlos Smith (Shreveport)
Stark (San Antonio)
Thebo (Waco)
Foley White (Houston)

Circa..Spring 1910, the PIEDMONT 350 cards were printed on all 48 - SL. Surveys indicate that these 14
additional SL subjects were were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs in greater quantity than those of the
original 34 subjects were.


TED Z
.
Ted,
I found an ad that I think might be important on the timeline of the
printing of southern league series with Old Mill backs.

The ad was in an August 14 1909 Tampa paper. With the cards
already packaged and in transit in mid August I would think the
printing would have had to have started in late spring or early summer.

img650.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 10-11-2018 at 12:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:34 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T206 Reference..Reflections..."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Listed in Post #516 here are all the T206's which have been confirmed (to date) with the DRUM back.

The following lists all the possible T206's which have yet to be found with the DRUM back.




350-only series (67 subjects not yet confirmed)

Abbott
Anderson
Arndt
Beck
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burns
Butler
Campbell
Carrigan
Chappelle
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Clancy
Clymer

Collins (A's)
Cravath
Cree
Doolan (fielding)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Ferguson
Flanagan
Fromme
Ganzel
Bill Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hall
Hannifan
Hoffman (Providence)
Howard (Chicago)
Hulswitt

Jones (Detroit)
Kruger
Lord
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McCormick
Mc Elveen
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
Merritt
Miller (Pittsburg)
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Phelan
Poland
Quillen

Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Stanage
Jack White (Buffalo)
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young


350/460 series (1 subject not yet confirmed)

Mullin (batting)



If any of you have any of these guys listed above with a DRUM back, PLEASE show-n-tell us about it here.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-06-2019 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Updated list.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-12-2018, 07:49 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T206 Reference..Reflections..."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Switching back to T205 DRUM's.....after completing my 209-card T205 set [included the Hoblitzell (no stats)],
I continued my T205 "adventure" by forming these A-B-C-D sub-sets. Here is an example of my favorite...….


.




I've been searching for the Huggins / DRUM for quite a number of years. Any help here is greatly appreciated.


T205 DRUM's or T206 DRUM's......if you have them, why not post them here.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T206 Reference....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis variations exist ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *





As we all know, the Demmitt and O'Hara St Louis variations were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. This is because the POLAR BEAR timeline coincided with the trades of
these two guys from their former New York teams. Both of them started the 1910 season with their respective St Louis teams. By May 1910, both of them were re-assigned
to the Eastern (International) League. Demmitt to Montreal and O'Hara to his hometown team, Toronto.

American Lithographic printed 250 different subjects with the POLAR BEAR backs....which include subjects in the 350-only series, the 350/460 series and the 460-only series.

As rare as these 2 cards seem to be, you may be surprised to find out how many of them are in circulation. I have a fair estimate of how many Demmitt and O'Hara St Louis
variations are currently in circulation. But, before I give you my number, let us hear your guesstimate ?







Imperial Tobacco (C46)....Eastern (International) League cards (1912)



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 07-11-2019 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-31-2017, 06:28 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

As I mentioned before, there is so much info that I can't seem to get a good, solid grip on it all. One question I had is, on the SLers, are there factory variations as well as the three (or two) brand variations?

Any info is greatly appreciated and thank you for sharing all of this information that you've put together!

-kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





TheT206 set includes exactly 48 Southern League (SL) subjects....34 of which were printed with 3 different backs (brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350).
And, the other 14 of these cards were printed with just OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Checklist of the 48 subjects in the SL series is broken down with respect to the cards with HINDU vs. the no HINDU cards........

34 subjects with brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Thornton
Violat


14 subjects with only OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


Stay tuned....additional info regarding these Southern Leaguer's will follow. Including the Brown OLD MILL backs of some of the SL cards.
And, collecting the "Quadruplicate" sub-set of the twenty Southern Association cards.


TED Z
.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-31-2017, 06:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, post your T206 story's

Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-31-2017, 06:59 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Thank you so much, Ted. I'm working on the T36 set and in it, each card has a Hassan and Mecca back, and each of those has a Factory 30 and a Factory 649 back. Wasn't sure if that might be the case on these.

-kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:02 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu_class_of_2001 View Post
Thank you so much, Ted. I'm working on the T36 set and in it, each card has a Hassan and Mecca back, and each of those has a Factory 30 and a Factory 649 back. Wasn't sure if that might be the case on these.

-kin

Hi Kin K.

No, it's not the case on the Southern League T206 cards.

The T36 (Auto Drivers) cards were printed and issued approx. the same time the T201 and T202 BB cards were. The MECCA and HASSAN backs on these BB cards, respectively,
have both the Factory #30 and a Factory #649 backs.

My experience in completing the T201 set (and still working on the T202 set) has been that the Factory #649 backs are more plentiful than the Factory #30 backs.

Is this difference also true for your T36 cards ?


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:01 PM
Beansballcardblog's Avatar
Beansballcardblog Beansballcardblog is offline
Kin K.
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 317
Default

Ted,

The sample size of cards that I've been able to verify and analyze is very small. Sometimes I can't see the back scans to verify that aspect. In the Huggins & Scott auction that ended this week, there was a complete set but only the fronts were pictured.

What I've found so far is Mecca 30 backs being the most plentiful. The other three brand/factory combinations have similar numbers.

I'm not confident this will hold up, as I've been looking into this for less than two years.

Thanks again for your great, informative thread!

-kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Kin K.

No, it's not the case on the Southern League T206 cards.

The T36 (Auto Drivers) cards were printed and issued approx. the same time the T201 and T202 BB cards were. The MECCA and HASSAN backs on these BB cards, respectively,
have both the Factory #30 and a Factory #649 backs.

My experience in completing the T201 set (and still working on the T202 set) has been that the Factory #649 backs are more plentiful than the Factory #30 backs.

Is this difference also true for your T36 cards ?


TED Z
.
__________________
T36 (1911 ATC Auto Drivers): 25/25 100% complete
T36 Master set: 69/100 69% complete
T210 Fort Worth Panthers: 14/16 88% complete (need Morris & Weatherford)
T206/T213 Scoops Carey back run: 4/4 !00% complete

Focus: open wheel/Indy 500 cards (1911 ATC Auto Drivers (T36), 1954 Stark & Wetzel 500 Winners, 1960 Parkhurst Indy Speedway Winners & 1960s Marhoefer Indy 500), match books & post cards.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; RAKs from CW & LuckyLarry
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:21 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default El Principe de Gales

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





One of the early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?

This thread inspired lot's of brainstorming between Net54ers regarding various aspects of T206 cards. Surveys and new theory's were explored, resulting in 363 posts
which you'll find very interesting and informative.

The El Principe de Gales (EPDG) brand dates back to 1850's. Its founder, Vicente Martínez Ybor, started producing Cigars in Havana, Cuba. In 1869, he fled from Cuba
to Key West, Florida where he continued manufacturing EPDG cigars. In 1885, he moved to Tampa, FL where he built a larger factory which produced his EPDG cigars.

Note that the EPDG cigarettes were manufactured at Factory #17 in Virginia. If any one on this forum knows where this Factory was located, please chime in....Thanx.




.... . . . . . .



To date, there are 284 confirmed T206 cards with the EPDG back.....they are listed here as a function of their respective T206 series.

150/350 Series................83 subjects

.

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
JJ Clarke
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)

Criger
Dahlen (Boston)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donlin (seated)
Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Durham
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Griffith (portrait)
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)

Tom Jones (St Louis)
Jordan (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)
Killian (pitching)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (throwing)
Leach (portrait)
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magee (portrait)
Marquard (hands at side)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Mullin (throwing)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)

Owen
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Seymour (bat)
Shaw (St Louis)
Shipke
Spade
Spencer
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stovall (portrait)
L Tannehill (Washington)
Tinker (portrait)
Turner
Wagner (bat on left)
Walsh
Weimer

Wilhelm (arms at chest)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)

350-only Series................102 subjects

.

Abbott
Anderson
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Batch
Beck
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Casey
Collins (A's)

Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree
Davidson
Demmitt (New York)
Dineen
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Easterly
Egan
Evans
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Gasper

Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Groom
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Hoffman (Providence)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (catching-NY)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Kruger
Lattimore

Lavender
Livingstone
Lord
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Maddox
Mattern
McAleese
McCormick
McLean
Miller (Pittsburg)
Milligan
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes
Oberlin
Pfeister (seated)
Phillippe
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen

Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhodes
Rudolph
Schlafly
Scott
Shannon
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Smith (Buffalo)
F. Smith (Chicago)
Stanage
Stephens
Sweeney (Boston)
Jesse Tannehill
Taylor
Thomas
Titus
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wilson

Wright
Zimmerman

Six Super-Prints

.

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)

350/460 series................56 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
George Davis (Chicago)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Jeff Sweeney
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)



.


460-only Series................37 subjects (COMPLETE)

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand on waist)
Hummel

Lake, St. Louis (ball)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat


This survey is a work in progress....any new EPDG inputs from you guys are greatly appreciated.

Thanx


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 02-14-2020 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Updated list.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-31-2017, 07:16 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,227
Default

Hi Kin,

Thanks for the nice words.

As Ted says there are just the three brand/factory combos for southern leaguers.

There is a footnote, however. A handful of southern leaguer cards having the Old Mill Southern back were printed in brown ink. These cards are all hand-cut i.e. scrap. Moreover, a couple of these Brown Old Mill Southerns (Greminger comes to mind) weirdly have a red Factory 649 overstrike stamp on them. If you search the Net54 archives you will find an image of the "freak" Greminger Brown Old Mill Southern Factory 649 Overstrike card somewhere.

Scot

Here's a link:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=147870

Last edited by sreader3; 07-31-2017 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-02-2017, 07:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



350/460 series subjects


In a conversation with David Hall at the National talking T206's, one topic was regarding the recent find of the 350/460 cards with SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory #30 backs.
These cards were never issued in cigarette packs at Factory #30 (NYC). Instead, American Lithographic overprinted them with the Factory #42 stamp and shipped them to
Factory #42 (Durham, NC).





It's my understanding that these cards in David's set were originally on a sheet. Unfortunately, the owner of this sheet hand-cut them. Anyhow, I was curious and asked
David to email me a list of them. And, here is David's list......

28 Hand-Cut (Not Issued) Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 cards

Berger, Heinie
Bradley, Bill (With Bat)
Burch, Al (Fielding)
Cobb, Ty (Bat Off Shoulder)
Conroy, Wid (With Bat)
Crawford, Sam (With Bat)
Jennings, Hughie (One Hand Showing)
Jennings, Hughie (Two Hands Showing)
Jordan, Tim (Batting)
Lajoie, Nap (With Bat)
Lake, Joe (St. Louis - No Ball)
Leach, Tommy (Bending Over)
Leifield, Lefty (Batting)
Manning, Rube (Pitching)
McQuillan, George (With Bat)
Mullin, George (With Bat)
Overall, Orval (Hand At Face Level)
Pelty, Barney (Vertical)
Pfeister, Jake (Throwing)
Smith, Frank (Chicago & Boston)
Steinfeldt, Harry (With Bat)
Tinker, Joe (Bat Off Shoulder)
Wagner, Heinie (Bat On Right Shoulder)
White, Doc (Pitching)

Very, very interesting, in that this sheet comprising of these 28 cards coincides exactly with my theory regarding the 28 subjects which I refer to as "Group B" (350/460 series).


Group B (350/460 series)




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-02-2017, 07:34 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,340
Default

Ted, I believe the Lajoie (batting) was not included in the recent find
of the hand cut cards.

Patrick
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-02-2017, 07:42 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Hi Pat

You may be right.

But, Lajoie is on the list David sent me.

So, I'll call him about this.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:02 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Ted, I believe the Lajoie (batting) was not included in the recent find
of the hand cut cards.


Patrick
Pat

David Hall has all 28 subjects on the list (in Post #181) with SWEET CAP 350-460 Factory #30 backs (which of course includes Lajoie).

Perhaps, Lajoie was not in the original find; and, he acquired it from another source.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-21-2017, 09:37 PM
Charger74 Charger74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 150
Default 350/460 cards with SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory #30 backs

You mention a Group B in Post 181, are these the only 28 with this back or are there others, in another group. Thanks in advance for your answer.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:18 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charger74 View Post
You mention a Group B in Post 181, are these the only 28 with this back or are there others, in another group. Thanks in advance for your answer.

Hi

The 350/460 series comprises of 63 subjects. Towards the end of the T206 production (circa..early 1911), American Lithographic divided these cards into the 2 print groups (which I've
designated as Group A and Group B)......



Group A

.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Group B




All 63 of these cards were printed with the SWEET CAP, Factory #30 backs. But, they were NEVER issued to Factory #30 in New York to be inserted into cigarette packs. Instead,
they were stamped with Factory #42 overprints and shipped to the Liggett & Myers plant in Durham, NC. This change was done by ATC in anticipation of their divestiture in 1911.

Apparently, a recent find of a sheet (or several sheets) containing these 28 subjects (Group B) was discovered and (unfortunately) it was cut into individual cards.

Some years ago, a "scrap" sheet containing the 35 subjects in Group A was discovered with SWEET CAP, Factory #30 backs. Unfortunately, it was cut into individual cards.


This "proof" card of Johnson is an example of the 35 cards that were on the Group A sheet......


.



Also, check-out Posts #4, 5, and 8 in this thread for more info regarding the 350/460 series cards.



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-25-2017 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Consolidated access to the 15 - T206 T-brand (front/back) surveys....UPDATED tedzan Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 58 03-13-2015 02:44 PM
Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 176 07-13-2009 03:17 PM
A survey about more surveys Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 22 05-13-2007 02:50 PM
POLAR BEAR subset....need your Inputs ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 50 04-06-2007 07:11 PM
T206 Wagner-Theory Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 24 03-20-2007 08:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:47 PM.


ebay GSB