PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[Leon]

You comprehended my last statement well. Thank you.

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

If you are referring to me, I am not trying to interrogate you. I am merely looking for you opinion. Do you think that Brent has done something wrong? Whether it is the request to bid issue, or not disclosing information about the card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

You comprehended my last statement well.

There's a first.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

There's a first.

You have a multi year history of being an idiot on this board based on the posts I have read. At what point do you listen to what other people say about you, over and over again, and leave in pure shame?

I would never be able to show my face in public if everyone I knew through here thought I was a complete moron.

Good lord. Give it up.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

You have a multi year history of being an idiot on this board based on the posts I have read. At what point do you listen to what other people say about you, over and over again, and leave in pure shame?

I would never be able to show my face in public if everyone I knew through here thought I was a complete moron.

Good lord. Give it up.

Damn, you're stupid! The only multi year history here is the every other month witch hunt and bitching and complaining about PWCC. It's the same people over and over, like the OP of this thread. You're just too new (and stupid) to realize it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Damn, you're stupid! The only multi year history here is the every other month witch hunt and bitching and complaining about PWCC. It's the same people over and over, like the OP of this thread. You're just too new (and stupid) to realize it.

From my perspective it's the same people over and over defending PWCC no matter what's presented to them. Spin, excuse, and deny.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From my perspective it's the same people over and over defending PWCC no matter what's presented to them.

And what's been presented, Peter? All I see is a text from Brent asking Cortney to quit playing games with the bidding in his auction? If PWCC did something wrong, lets find out. But, from what I can see, they haven't. That may change, who knows? But I don't see where they've done anything wrong at this point. All I hear from you and Cortney is that Brent knew the cards history before the auction and he was the one that cleaned it or had it cleaned. Prove that or be quiet!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And what's been presented, Peter? All I see is a text from Brent asking Cortney to quit playing games with the bidding in his auction? If PWCC did something wrong, lets find out. But, from what I can see, they haven't. That may change, who knows? But I don't see where they've done anything wrong at this point. All I hear from you and Cortney is that Brent knew the cards history before the auction and he was the one that cleaned it or had it cleaned. Prove that or be quiet!

I am not arguing any more with a guy with blinders on. He bought the card out of REA, submitted it raw to PSA, and then sold it to Cortney in the PSA holder. These are facts. He (or Betsy) posted several times last night and nowhere denied these basic facts, because they cannot. Really, David, you are putting yourself way out on a limb trying to deny the obvious.

If you really want to defend PWCC, why don't you argue that despite knowing the card's history it was OK not to disclose it? That would at least be a worthy discussion, perhaps.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And what's been presented, Peter? All I see is a text from Brent asking Cortney to quit playing games with the bidding in his auction? If PWCC did something wrong, lets find out. But, from what I can see, they haven't. That may change, who knows? But I don't see where they've done anything wrong at this point. All I hear from you and Cortney is that Brent knew the cards history before the auction and he was the one that cleaned it or had it cleaned. Prove that or be quiet!

Couple questions/issues I think are at the heart of this.

1) I think it's pretty well established that PWCC was at least in some way involved with the purchase of the card from REA, which was prior to any "changes". They were then involved with the subsequent sale of the card after those "changes", so I think it logically follows that they knew the "changes" had been made. I don't think it really matters whether they were "owners" or "brokers" from the standpoint of responsibility for the changes, they had knowledge of it.

They were then involved a 2nd time in the sale of the "changed" card, and it seems pretty clear that in neither instance did they disclose or point out that "changes" had been made. I'm not trying to make a sweeping all encompassing judgment of disclosure requirements here, but I think we can all agree in this specific example the "changes" are pretty "significant" and would be considered "material" information to many collectors.

I think a lot of people view that lack of disclosure as at least mildly dishonest, or maybe a better phrase is misleading through ommission? In either description, there's absolutely a question of "intention" is there not?


2) I don't view "string bids" (whether you take the lead or not) made at what is well less than the expected ending price of an auction to be shilling, but I also recognize that may not necessarily be the majority view - however I do think that distinction is pretty relevant to forming an opinion around the text message asking Courtney to "take the lead".

I think I tend to agree that the overall context of the text discussion is relatively harmless, except for the part where it goes to being "outbid". This is where views on string bids separate opinions. PWCC seems to "know" that the bids will go higher, and if so then why would the string bid matter whether taking the lead or not? I know folks will say it "looks bad" and PWCC even implies that understanding in the texts, but again these sorts of bids at well less than final sale price ultimately are irrelevant to the final sale price. Sure it bumps "activity", but it doesn't ultimately affect the price.

However, I acknowledge that if you fall in the camp that string bids are really a form of shilling, then the "you will get outbid" statement becomes at least somewhat concerning doesn't it?


3) I've thought a lot about what the correct designation for this card is, and I'm not able to come to a conclusion that a PSA 7 is in any way accurate. My logic is as follows. At some point, the original card "toned" except in areas on the right side that almost look like it was "clipped" or "taped", whatever prevented those areas for also toning. Somehow, the card was returned closer to it's original presentation. So from that standpoint, I don't think "altered" is the right assessment, because the toned card wasn't really in its original condition. However, removing of the toning (whether water or chemical) ultimately "restored" the card closer to the original condition and to me that is the accurate grading of the card - it's been RESTORED.

I should add that I don't believe it's always possible to know a card has been "restored", and for now I think we're giving the grader the benefit of the doubt. Although, a close inspection of the pictures here still indicate the "shadow" areas of the "clip/tape", and I probably fall in the camp that for a card at this value level that should have been identified, which I believe would have led to better understanding of its history and ultimately would have landed it in a different holder.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Damn, you're stupid! The only multi year history here is the every other month witch hunt and bitching and complaining about PWCC. It's the same people over and over, like the OP of this thread. You're just too new (and stupid) to realize it.

What is your point? You have been using Ebay for how long and you don't know you that you get 3 best offers? You just yap for the sake of yapping.

There you go again, not listening. Re-read the posts that people have quoted you on, then followed it up with the same comments about you.
I was reading one this morning, where you, just like the people you complain about are in the PWCC thread talking it up. No surprise.

CySemour: http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=211
Whodunit: Countless. Putting them all here is pointless.
Peter_Speath: I am not arguing any more with a guy with blinders on.

Besides the fact that I have been praised for calling you a moron from different people:
PM 1: I am sick of David and his contrarian approach. He loves to argue and spew shit for the sake of seeing his posts.
PM 2: David James will never learn; been watching him spew his garbage for years on this board.

A simple search of your username and the word idiot, returns 500 hits. 5 HUNDRED hits.

I have read countless amounts of these in my short time here as you suggest. Imagine how many more I can compile as I go? As I find them, I will keep
adding them to the list for you.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

What is your point? You have been using Ebay for how long and you don't know you that you get 3 best offers? You just yap for the sake of yapping.

There you go again, not listening. Re-read the posts that people have quoted you on, then followed it up with the same comments about you.
I was reading one this morning, where you, just like the people you complain about are in the PWCC thread talking it up. No surprise.

CySemour: http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=211
Whodunit: Countless. Putting them all here is pointless.
Peter_Speath: I am not arguing any more with a guy with blinders on.

Besides the fact that I have been praised for calling you a moron from different people:
PM 1: I am sick of David and his contrarian approach. He loves to argue and spew shit for the sake of seeing his posts.
PM 2: David James will never learn; been watching him spew his garbage for years on this board.

A simple search of your username and the word idiot, returns 500 hits. 5 HUNDRED hits.

I have read countless amounts of these in my short time here as you suggest. Imagine how many more I can compile as I go? As I find them, I will keep
adding them to the list for you.

Idiot!

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Idiot!

Yea. We agree with you. That was my point.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Leon

You comprehended my last statement well. Thank you.

So my understanding of this is you don't want to comment because your opinion of it is negative, and they are an advertiser? I am assuming this because you did not have an issue commenting about the cleaning of a card and that the card they sold should be a 7.

[Leon]

I am glad you have your understanding of it.

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

So my understanding of this is you don't want to comment because your opinion of it is negative, and they are an advertiser? I am assuming this because you did not have an issue commenting about the cleaning of a card and that the card they sold should be a 7.