PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

To further that argument Peter, regarding not disclosing material facts, make sure that he knows that we know who won it in REA, who cracked it, who graded it raw by PSA and who sold it to the "first" buyer (as a private sale). There have been 4 owners in a PSA holder: 1) the "person" who bought it from REA and worked on it, 2) the person he sold it to, 3) John Perez via Goldin Auctions and now 4) the winner of Brent's auction. I wouldn't put it past Brent to have won the card himself just to get that cert # off of the mkt. Quite frankly, I've got some pretty juicy texts, emails, spreadsheets,etc. from the "man himself" regarding this card. It will surely be fun to see some of his guys (I was one of them for a long time) come to his defense. If you noticed early on in this thread, he defended this card 3 days into the auction, monitors this board tirelessly (told me to stay away from it {the board}..........."I've got it handled"), yet slipped away like a thief in the night when facts start divulging about who actually had factual and material information about the card from the point of its coming out of REA. He left John hanging high and dry when the rubber hit the road.

Please share some of these facts and including the juicy texts, emails, spreadsheets, from whoever the man himself is.

You should also follow the forum rules and put your real name somewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Please share some of these facts and including the juicy texts, emails, spreadsheets, from whoever the man himself is.

You should also follow the forum rules and put your real name somewhere.

He's referring to Brent.

[Whodunit]

My name is Cortney DeLorme. I'm not going to hide behind any computer screen. The "man himself" is Brent Huigens. Brent won it in REA. Brent sold the Dimaggio to me for 75K after the 2015 National. Is this how we play this game? Because I was the one that he sold the card to under false pretenses and have kept everything documented from day 1. Y'all wanna know who S***N is on ebay? ME.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

My name is Cortney DeLorme. I'm not going to hide behind any computer screen. The "man himself" is Brent Huigens. Brent won it in REA. Brent sold the Dimaggio to me for 75K after the 2015 National. Is this how we play this game? Because I was the one that he sold the card to under false pretenses and have kept everything documented from day 1. Y'all wanna know who S***N is on ebay? ME.

Now we are getting some where.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

My name is Cortney DeLorme. I'm not going to hide behind any computer screen. The "man himself" is Brent Huigens. Brent won it in REA. Brent sold the Dimaggio to me for 75K after the 2015 National. Is this how we play this game? Because I was the one that he sold the card to under false pretenses and have kept everything documented from day 1. Y'all wanna know who S***N is on ebay? ME.

So you were the one that consigned it to Goldin? If so, did you disclose it to Goldin?

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

So you were the one that consigned it to Goldin? If so, did you disclose it to Goldin?

When Mr. James is not arguing with people on the Net54 forum he can be found arguing with himself at home in the mirror.

Way to go David...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by botn

When Mr. James is not arguing with people on the Net54 forum he can be found arguing with himself at home in the mirror.

Way to go David...

Not arguing with anybody. It was a fair question.

[Whodunit]

Yes, I consigned it to Goldin. As for my disclosure, no, the facts surrounding this card weren't disclosed in Goldin's Auction. The details of this holders history didn't come out until Brent listed the card for sale in this auction. I had no clue that it'd been doctored when I bought it, or never in a million years would have bought it and had no idea when I sold it. I was alerted to this thread by someone who thought I might be interested in what was going on. I sold this card via Ken along with a '55 Clemente PSA 9 and some other very big cards.

[Whodunit]

Go to the auction. Look at the date that it started. Look at when S***N bid on the card to buy it back b/c I'd lost 25K on the card and would have rather had it in my collection at that price than see it go somewhere else.

Now, look at the date that this thread started and when I STOPPED bidding. I had no interest in the card after finding out it'd been manipulated/altered. It becomes pretty clear when evidence of this cards past came out of hiding.

[bnorth]

double post.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Go to the auction. Look at the date that it started. Look at when S***N bid on the card to buy it back b/c I'd lost 25K on the card and would have rather had it in my collection at that price than see it go somewhere else.

Now, look at the date that this thread started and when I STOPPED bidding. I had no interest in the card after finding out it'd been manipulated/altered. It becomes pretty clear when evidence of this cards past came out of hiding.

I for one appreciate you posting about this. Could you please post a timeline of ownership and card grade during their ownership to the best of your knowledge? Thank you!

[Whodunit]

I don't know who consigned it to REA, but I know who won it in REA. So, a timeline prior to "final value" in their auction, I can't even begin to speculate on. From the time that it sold in REA to date though, I can FAR MORE than speculate.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I for one appreciate you posting about this. Could you please post a timeline of ownership and card grade during their ownership to the best of your knowledge? Thank you!

To the best of my understanding, this is what the claim is:

Spring 2015: Sold in REA as an SGC 50 for $6600 to Brent
August 2015: Sold privately by Brent to Courtney as a PSA 7 for $75k
Oct 2016: Consigned by Courtney to Goldin and won by John Perez for $46,800
Feb 2017: Consigned by John to Brent and sold to unknown buyer for $52,300

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Go to the auction. Look at the date that it started. Look at when S***N bid on the card to buy it back b/c I'd lost 25K on the card and would have rather had it in my collection at that price than see it go somewhere else.

Here you say you were bidding on the card to buy it back for your collection. Now you're saying you were asked to shill. Which is it?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Here you say you were bidding on the card to buy it back for your collection. Now you're saying you were asked to shill. Which is it?

Well he may of shilled to a point and then noticed the price point wasnt going over a certain amount so than switched to buying it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Yes, I consigned it to Goldin. As for my disclosure, no, the facts surrounding this card weren't disclosed in Goldin's Auction. The details of this holders history didn't come out until Brent listed the card for sale in this auction.

Ok, but you said earlier, "I was the one that he sold the card to under false pretenses and have kept everything documented from day 1." When you say you kept everything documented from Day 1, that makes it sound like you knew about it early on. Not trying to argue, but that is how it sounds.

[Whodunit]

By "documented", it means that I have records of when I bought it, how much I paid for it, who I bought it from, when I got it in my hands, etc. I'm not referring to having had "documented" the fact that the card was altered/manipulated. I've already stated in this thread that there would have been absolutely zero chance of my purchasing this card had he told me what he'd done to get it out of the SGC 50 and into the PSA 7. The documentation of this cards HISTORY, for me, now starts from the point that Brent won it in REA (yes, that is highly documented) to the point that it just sold BY HIM again to another unsuspecting high end collector. This thread started a few days after the auction started. Brent defended the card up until about day 3 of the auction and obviously knew the details as we've well established at this point that he won it, he cleaned it/had it cleaned, he holdered it and he sold it to me. He and who I will refer to as "the cleaner", were at that point, the only ones that knew that it was the same card. I'd have to go back and look at the early stages of this thread, but whoever put the fact that this card was the same card that REA sold as a 50 was the same one, was the one that let the cat out of the bag.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

By "documented", it means that I have records of when I bought it, how much I paid for it, who I bought it from, when I got it in my hands, etc. I'm not referring to having had "documented" the fact that the card was altered/manipulated. I've already stated in this thread that there would have been absolutely zero chance of my purchasing this card had he told me what he'd done to get it out of the SGC 50 and into the PSA 7. The documentation of this cards HISTORY, for me, now starts from the point that Brent won it in REA (yes, that is highly documented) to the point that it just sold BY HIM again to another unsuspecting high end collector. This thread started a few days after the auction started. Brent defended the card up until about day 3 of the auction and obviously knew the details as we've well established at this point that he won it, he cleaned it/had it cleaned, he holdered it and he sold it to me. He and who I will refer to as "the cleaner", were at that point, the only ones that knew that it was the same card. I'd have to go back and look at the early stages of this thread, but whoever put the fact that this card was the same card that REA sold as a 50 was the same one, was the one that let the cat out of the bag.

This certainly is an interesting development. That would explain why he defended it being a 7, and why he sent it back to PSA. It also explains why he has not made any statements on this thread. At all.

[rats60]

He said he found out because of this thread.

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Yes, I consigned it to Goldin. As for my disclosure, no, the facts surrounding this card weren't disclosed in Goldin's Auction. The details of this holders history didn't come out until Brent listed the card for sale in this auction. I had no clue that it'd been doctored when I bought it, or never in a million years would have bought it and had no idea when I sold it. I was alerted to this thread by someone who thought I might be interested in what was going on. I sold this card via Ken along with a '55 Clemente PSA 9 and some other very big cards.

[Rookiemonster]

Sooooooo your saying colonel mustard is innocent? I don't believe it !

Why does it matter who doctored the card I'm sure there are many that can do it and maybe even more.

[BeanTown]

Thanks for restating Cortney as I missed your earlier post as I was speed reading the thread. Glad to see both Cortney and Evan post on the board as we knew there were many other private collectors/investors who drop six figures or more into the card market each year.

Glad to hear Goldin didn't know about the clean up job as I would hope that any credible auction house would disclose all information about the item they were auctioning off.

It wouldn't surprise me whoever won the PWCC card will make it disappear. Looks like the PWCC consignor John gets his investment (flipper) money back plus a grand and that's the end of the 1936 WW Joe DiMaggio card.

After reading this thread and Brent's involvement and knowledge of this card (if true), he probably should say something on here and I'm sure he is hoping this card disappears and gets forgotten about.

[Whodunit]

Making the card disappear isnt necessary, or even warranted, imo. Getting it into the proper holder (A) seems more appropriate. Evan likes to say Id have bought the card regardless of whether it had been altered or not. What Evan failed to mention is I dont own ANY other holder than PSA and none other than graded cards. I dont buy altered, raw or anything in the neighborhood.....unless, im otherwise misled (lied to) and find out the hard way that it was manipulated and slipped past PSA. I fault PSA zero in this case.....I fault a thief and a liar 100%. There again, only Brent and I can dispute this claim. Where is he these days? Im not hearing a claim from the cats mouth.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Thanks for restating Cortney as I missed your earlier post as I was speed reading the thread. Glad to see both Cortney and Evan post on the board as we knew there were many other private collectors/investors who drop six figures or more into the card market each year.

Glad to hear Goldin didn't know about the clean up job as I would hope that any credible auction house would disclose all information about the item they were auctioning off.

It wouldn't surprise me whoever won the PWCC card will make it disappear. Looks like the PWCC consignor John gets his investment (flipper) money back plus a grand and that's the end of the 1936 WW Joe DiMaggio card.

After reading this thread and Brent's involvement and knowledge of this card (if true), he probably should say something on here and I'm sure he is hoping this card disappears and gets forgotten about.

What can he say, he isn't going to deny the facts, so his only choice is to go the Jake route and say it's a PSA 7 and that's all that matters, and/or that the hobby accepts this sort of restoration and therefore it's not material.

[Exhibitman]

This thread is like a written version of The View...or so I've been told.

We have got to come to terms with honest paper conservation in this hobby. The TPG miinions are no-talent ass-clowns when it comes to finding out what has been done by someone well versed in paper conservation techniques, and this focus on letting TPGs tell us what is what is just silly once you see what can be done without detection in terms of removal and cleaning, like the Joe D (assuming, of course, that there weren't harmful techniques and chemicals used). Properly performed conservation is accepted in every form of fine art and antiques involving paper, except baseball cards and comic books. Here are some insanely great examples of what can be done:

http://www.lapapergroup.com/before-after.html

and here is what they've done with baseball cards:

http://www.postermountain.com/form/p...formatted/5137

Look at the Johnny Unitas RC or the CJ Cobb midway down the page.

But it ain't cheap. Even a minimal project will run $200 with a good conservator.

As many have observed here, you can make dramatic changes with good old H2O. Look at this photo of Kid Kaplan I cleaned up with water and some photo cleaner:




And I'm just an amateur.