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#251
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So a 5k profit wasn't quite good enough, you wanted 12k? I see your point.
It really depends on what the card is washed with to many of us, me included, as far as how we feel about the card. BTW, in case you haven't checked this is a chat board and whining is allowed, please continue. Quote:
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#252
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PS - I would LOVE a beat up Walter Johnson!! Play Ball preferably!! Last edited by bobbyw8469; 02-10-2017 at 10:55 AM. |
#253
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Assuming he's made some monsterous returns during the "buying group" tour. "Only" making $5k puts him off the ledge? Sorry, don't buy it, and don't feel sorry for him. |
#254
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sure is a lot of ass kissing and stone throwing at glass houses going on here.
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#255
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You come along and demand we turn the other cheek so that you can make a bigger profit. You are attacking more than just the 4 people in this thread who spoke out & frustrated you. |
#256
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I think most people would be upset if they thought they bought a Ferrari, and found out it really is a Pontiac Fiero kit car with a Ferrari body.
I personally don't have the money to find out. Even if I loved the card, finding out it was messed with would change my opinion of it immediately and I would never look at it the same way again. It would take the joy right out of having it, caused by knowing I could have paid a fraction of the price and done the same thing to have the same card would make me feel(and likely everyone else) that they got ripped off(which is what it would be). Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 02-10-2017 at 01:49 PM. |
#257
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Is it just me, or does the PSA 7 look like the reverse text is bleeding a bit? I find the reverse text on the SGC 4 to be significantly sharper.
Could just be a slightly out of focus scan... or just me As a side note, this thread reaffirms my desire to stay in the low end of the hobby. Restoration/Soaking/Doctoring and tampered with slabs are far less likely to happen to sub $200 cards... I'll take and enjoy a lightly trimmed or altered "Authentic" grade card any day of the week over the same card with a numeric grade that costs 10x - 100x as much. Where there's big $$ involved, there's greed and fraud. Always has been and always will be. Last edited by sterlingfox; 02-10-2017 at 02:54 PM. |
#258
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I also appreciate the shared knowledge that comes with following this board. Thank you everyone.
...Even if I loved the card, finding out it was messed with would change my opinion of it immediately... If it were a $100. card or a $50,000. card, I would take advantage of the return policy so fast it make your head spin. Certified, Delivery signature, insured, personal plane ride to return, whatever it takes - card is going back. Done. Then Brent can return it to the doctor or whatever. |
#259
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-10-2017 at 02:46 PM. |
#260
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clarification
Thanks for the clarification on the ownership trail. So then Brent can't return it to the doctor - ok then like I said ... or whatever. But I would be returning it. Real fast.
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#261
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I had not looked that closely but you might be right however all the resident board experts know without a doubt that only distilled water was used to turn the Joe D into a 7 and distilled water would not cause the text to bleed.
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#263
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Does anyone know if Brent collects cards? Does he buy and sell?
Just curious
__________________
Neal Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#264
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Conversely, there are several posts where the resident board experts say there was more than just distilled waters used. I guess they were there and watched |
#265
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Or maybe they are experts on soaking cards and know what water only may remove. |
#266
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yes...that!
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#267
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Quite hideous indeed, although...
Still nicer than his 38' Goudey Heads Up, albeit not by much.
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#269
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-10-2017 at 07:54 PM. |
#270
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Based on that experience and knowledge, what chemical(s) do you think were used?
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#271
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Yes wouldn't that be awesome. A list of chemicals and maybe detailed info on how to use them. That way we could have more idiots altering cards.
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#272
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I would think -- and this has been reinforced by people much more knowledgeable than myself -- bleach or some sort of caustic agent. I posted the contents of an email I had received early in the thread to this effect. Maybe there are newer and better methods, but I am just really skeptical that water alone could bring about that change. I mean on the SGC 50 detailed scan I posted, look at the contrast between the protected areas on the right side and the rest of the card.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-10-2017 at 08:27 PM. |
#273
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If you mean me on the prior, I just don't like to talk like I am a teenager throwing eggs at cars from the corner. I just see no point in it.
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. Last edited by JustinD; 02-10-2017 at 08:54 PM. |
#274
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I do not believe this was water and I have a theory, but no proof. The only issue I have with this thing is presenting theory as fact. If this was all presented as a talking point without the thread decending into stating it was unequivobly true a few posts in without anything but a photo, it would be more palatable. Not being political, but as a reference, this is somewhat like switching between Breitbart and Huffington Post...the truth is likely in the middle.
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. |
#275
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Soak Check out post #10. Not only does the paper and glue come off, the glue stains come out as well. Watch the video. You'll notice that after the paper is removed, there are still glue stains on the card. I'm guessing he soaked it long enough to remove the glue stains as well. |
#276
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To my eye the issue with the DiMaggio was toning, not staining, and my understanding which could be wrong is that water alone will not remove extensive toning.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#277
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Maybe it is toning? There are ways to remove toning without even getting the card wet. Edited the details per Justin's request below, but he knows too.
Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 02-10-2017 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity |
#278
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This thread has some amazing results too...
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Soak Posts 1, 35 and 38. |
#279
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David, could you please remove the altering info so it is not used by random lurkers?
That info is better im'ed to Peter.
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. |
#280
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Thank you David.
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. |
#281
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Done. I just wanted to show there are ways to remove/reduce toning where no chemicals touch the card at all...which I'm of the opinion that it's not considered altering given that it doesn't change the card whatsoever.
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#282
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Understood, I just wish to respect all opinions.
__________________
- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. |
#283
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My thoughts as well. If I owned it I might say, "Here's my Dimag PSA 7". But I could never say, "Here's my Dimag PSA 7. Ain't it a beaut?".
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#284
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There are many collectors i know that for their personal collection they would rather have a prime '6' than a low '7' and would trade straight up by giving the higher grade card for the lower grade card depending on the card or at least giving a great deal on paper Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-11-2017 at 01:40 PM. |
#285
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Last edited by Paul S; 02-11-2017 at 05:36 PM. |
#286
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There are are many collectors i know that for their personal collection they would rather have a prime '6' than a low fugly foto '7' and would trade straight up by giving the higher grade card for the lower grade card depending on the card or at least giving a great deal on paper Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-12-2017 at 08:35 AM. |
#287
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Quote:
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#288
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I was going to add some more 'comment to the comment' to the post perhaps 7 or 8 more but then you would of needed more than just Tylenol
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#289
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Is that "7 or 8" PSA, SGC or BVG?
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#290
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Lastly, I would feel sick if I had bought this card knowing the history. We're all different but, I would be upset.
__________________
Nick M |
#291
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#292
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So, did we ever decide who was behind the scam here? Who won it in REA....who cracked it.....who washed it....who submitted to psa......who THAT ONE PERSON sold the card to.
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#293
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...
__________________
Last edited by Bliggity; 02-16-2017 at 12:37 PM. |
#294
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I think it was colonel mustard did it with the candle stick in the 3rd floor bathroom .
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼 |
#295
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I would not call it a scam, its a legit graded psa 7 card.
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#296
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So, you don't think that buying an SGC 50 in REA, cracking it, cleaning it and then submitting raw to PSA is a scam? You also don't think that selling (as being the same person) a card privately for 75K without revealing such information (disclosure) is a problem? Now, as someone with more than a 3rd grade education, I find that hard to believe.
Last edited by Whodunit; 02-16-2017 at 09:45 AM. |
#297
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It's fraud to sell an item without disclosing a known material fact. It's the same as lying. You're a lawyer, you know that. Are you seriously saying it's not material that the card came out of an SGC 50 and was worked on before being graded a 7 by PSA?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-16-2017 at 10:02 AM. |
#298
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this hobby is full of crooks...littered with them...way more crooks than honest joes in this hobby. some have paid a price but the majority continue to flourish here there and everywhere. |
#299
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To further that argument Peter, regarding not disclosing material facts, make sure that he knows that we know who won it in REA, who cracked it, who graded it raw by PSA and who sold it to the "first" buyer (as a private sale). There have been 4 owners in a PSA holder: 1) the "person" who bought it from REA and worked on it, 2) the person he sold it to, 3) John Perez via Goldin Auctions and now 4) the winner of Brent's auction. I wouldn't put it past Brent to have won the card himself just to get that cert # off of the mkt. Quite frankly, I've got some pretty juicy texts, emails, spreadsheets,etc. from the "man himself" regarding this card. It will surely be fun to see some of his guys (I was one of them for a long time) come to his defense. If you noticed early on in this thread, he defended this card 3 days into the auction, monitors this board tirelessly (told me to stay away from it {the board}..........."I've got it handled"), yet slipped away like a thief in the night when facts start divulging about who actually had factual and material information about the card from the point of its coming out of REA. He left John hanging high and dry when the rubber hit the road.
Last edited by Whodunit; 02-16-2017 at 10:07 AM. |
#300
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You should also follow the forum rules and put your real name somewhere. Last edited by bnorth; 02-16-2017 at 10:11 AM. |
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