PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

So what is everyone's opinion on this situation? Without having to go back thru 100's of posts....Thanks

Depends on who you ask. Personally, I think post #85 sums it up well for me.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Depends on who you ask. Personally, I think post #85 sums it up well for me.

Yep post 85 is a gem. A flipper buys a altered card from a known shiller and is pissed that people think there is something wrong with that. The gall of some people is simply amazing.

[ullmandds]

yes post #85 sums it up! someone get Kevin the cliff notes!

[aloondilana]

Are you guys seriously still crying about this card?
The auction is over. It got about $7500 less than I expected, maybe this thread had something to do with it.
Yes I flip cards, is there anything wrong with that? I read some posts that are attempting to knock me because of this.

I do what I do, and you guys can worship your beat up t206 Walter Johnson's.

Guys, really there is a lot more to life than whining about what grade a card should be or whether washing a card should not allow to get a numerical grade.

[Leon]

So a 5k profit wasn't quite good enough, you wanted 12k? I see your point.

It really depends on what the card is washed with to many of us, me included, as far as how we feel about the card. BTW, in case you haven't checked this is a chat board and whining is allowed, please continue.

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Are you guys seriously still crying about this card?
The auction is over. It got about $7500 less than I expected, maybe this thread had something to do with it.
Yes I flip cards, is there anything wrong with that? I read some posts that are attempting to knock me because of this.

I do what I do, and you guys can worship your beat up t206 Walter Johnson's.

Guys, really there is a lot more to life than whining about what grade a card should be or whether washing a card should not allow to get a numerical grade.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Leon

So a 5k profit wasn't quite good enough, you wanted 12k? I see your point.

It really depends on what the card is washed with to many of us, me included, as far as how we feel about the card. BTW, in case you haven't checked this is a chat board and whining is allowed, please continue.

LOL......good one!

PS - I would LOVE a beat up Walter Johnson!! Play Ball preferably!!

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

LOL......good one!

PS - I would LOVE a beat up Walter Johnson!! Play Ball preferably!!

The card owner is a professional flipper of +$10K cards. Undoubtly he knows the perils of this business. Alterations, shilling, cracking out, resubmissions, re-consigning, AH musical chairs; he's probably an expert at all of this.

Assuming he's made some monsterous returns during the "buying group" tour. "Only" making $5k puts him off the ledge? Sorry, don't buy it, and don't feel sorry for him.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.

I don't rely on grading or buy flips over cards and I see your point in this discussion completely.

I think it only matters in this circumstance due to PWCC's return policy:
"We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC."

it also matters because if the card shows no signs of chemical cleaning and we are only going on assumption of wrongdoing it does not meet a burden of proof in my mind to start a coup. If you have insider knowledge of what took place could you reveal without sources the method you were told cleaned this card or if you were just told it was cleaned in an untoward way?

If proof exists that is concrete and physical that other than natural items were used, than I think it would weigh my opinion heavily.

I have an opinion of how this was done in my mind also, but I do not have proof of it and it would be impossible to prove unless the person who did it admitted fully. I am also in a quandary as to if I feel it is wrong as it is a common practice in other hobbies and does not involve direct contact with any chemical.

[JustinD]

John,

For debate and opinion several have been defending the card in this thread as there is a great value to proof over innuendo.

I do tend to side in some ways to cleaning that does not damage or change the card structurally.

I also felt for you being saddled unknowingly with an albatross in this card as I believe you did not know the issues involved at purchase and was genuinely pleased you were able to move on. I am sorry you became the poster boy for this and I understand you are feeling personally attacked.

...but your replies are making it difficult.

[aloondilana]

Thanks Justin.
You are correct, this thread has frustrated me. I'm not attacking everyone, just about 4 people.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Thanks Justin.
You are correct, this thread has frustrated me. I'm not attacking everyone, just about 4 people.

Thank you for editing the previous comment.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

Thanks Justin.
You are correct, this thread has frustrated me. I'm not attacking everyone, just about 4 people.

The vintage card collectors of this board share potential examples of fraud to discuss which helps keep each other aware and knowledgeable of what might be going on.

You come along and demand we turn the other cheek so that you can make a bigger profit. You are attacking more than just the 4 people in this thread who spoke out & frustrated you.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I don't rely on grading or buy flips over cards and I see your point in this discussion completely.

I think it only matters in this circumstance due to PWCC's return policy:
"We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC."

it also matters because if the card shows no signs of chemical cleaning and we are only going on assumption of wrongdoing it does not meet a burden of proof in my mind to start a coup. If you have insider knowledge of what took place could you reveal without sources the method you were told cleaned this card or if you were just told it was cleaned in an untoward way?

If proof exists that is concrete and physical that other than natural items were used, than I think it would weigh my opinion heavily.

I have an opinion of how this was done in my mind also, but I do not have proof of it and it would be impossible to prove unless the person who did it admitted fully. I am also in a quandary as to if I feel it is wrong as it is a common practice in other hobbies and does not involve direct contact with any chemical.

"We at PWCC are not professional graders..." yet they have no problem lending their opinion to a card- hence their HE ( high end) designation.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

"We at PWCC are not professional graders..." yet they have no problem lending their opinion to a card- hence their HE ( high end) designation.

I am not defending it Dave, just quoting the language used. I agree with your statement and am not a fan of the silly HE designation.

[nrm1977]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I don't rely on grading or buy flips over cards and I see your point in this discussion completely.

I think it only matters in this circumstance due to PWCC's return policy:
"We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC."

it also matters because if the card shows no signs of chemical cleaning and we are only going on assumption of wrongdoing it does not meet a burden of proof in my mind to start a coup. If you have insider knowledge of what took place could you reveal without sources the method you were told cleaned this card or if you were just told it was cleaned in an untoward way?

If proof exists that is concrete and physical that other than natural items were used, than I think it would weigh my opinion heavily.

I have an opinion of how this was done in my mind also, but I do not have proof of it and it would be impossible to prove unless the person who did it admitted fully. I am also in a quandary as to if I feel it is wrong as it is a common practice in other hobbies and does not involve direct contact with any chemical.

Good points. On a side note, unfortunately return polices don't mean to much on ebay these days. Sadly, the buyer will always "win" if the seller accepts returns. Good old ebay. :/

Lastly, I would feel sick if I had bought this card knowing the history. We're all different but, I would be upset.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by nrm1977

Good points. On a side note, unfortunately return polices don't mean to much on ebay these days. Sadly, the buyer will always "win" if the seller accepts returns. Good old ebay. :/

Lastly, I would feel sick if I had bought this card knowing the history. We're all different but, I would be upset.

Well if you are buying a card for 20k+ I would expect the buyer to do some research..its not like that past sale when the card was an SGC was 10 years ago. Its Buyer beware.