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#1
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Couple of interesting stats for a guy who apparently is only better than 5 percent of all major leaguers and is just some slappy dinky hitter:
Ichiro has led the league in intentional walks 3 times Ichiro has more intentional walks in his 16 seasons than A-rod does in his 22. Ichiro's offensive WAR is nearly 10 points higher than Jose Bautista's, even with Joey Bats having a 132 RC+. Last edited by packs; 08-11-2016 at 07:38 AM. |
#2
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I don't mind the idea of using total bases as a preferred metric. If we are talking lead off hitters one could make the argument that on base percentage is more important than either. My main issue with total bases is that the steroid era skewed the validity of comparative analysis because of the home run party. I'm more impressed with say Carl Yastrzemski total base numbers from the late 1960's than any total base numbers from the 90's.
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#3
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Quote:
There was another poster that talked about walks not meaning much compared to hits because you can drive in runs with hits. I agree with that. However it was already assumed the total base guys drive in more runs that then the ichiro type 3000 hit guys so the walks was just an icing on the cake and not a main part of the argument Basically, i just not a big fan of 'participation awards' If you play long enough you are going to get a certain amount of slap hits even into your 40s. I would contend a replacement level player from AAA who played 23 years in the big leagues would get close to 3000 hits but nowhere near 4500 total bases... Yes ichiro did it in far less, However we are going by totals not by how many years when doing a 3000 hit countdown. There is no hits per game countdown..... Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-11-2016 at 11:04 AM. |
#4
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Well factor into your perspective that only about 1 percent of all major leaguers have careers spanning 20 or more seasons.
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#5
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Quote:
Last edited by dgo71; 08-11-2016 at 11:23 AM. |
#6
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The participation award argument does cross over to 300 wins as well with guys like niekro and sutton, but again, I do think you underestimate just how amazing it is to be able to keep your body and mind in major league condition at 40 plus. I'm 34 and can't move the way I did at 24. To be 40 and be productive on a major league roster is a pretty freakish thing.
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#7
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Quote:
We arent grading on a curve here...impressive at 40 for ichiro still for him means replacement level. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-11-2016 at 08:38 PM. |
#8
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Quote:
It wasnt whether 3000 hits is impressive, its whether compared to total bases whether its that impressive. None of those guys you mentioned are in the top 30 in total bases. Yet there is no mention of any total bases milestones but people go crazy and buy relic cards of 3000 hits. Lots of guys are better than replacement level players that wasnt my point Yes participating in the major leagues 20 years means you are a pro baseball player that obviously offered a lot , but it says nothing of whether you were elite. Cumulative stats can make someone look elite though when you add 20 years versus a guy that only played 5 years in total though at an elite level. ....it doesnt matter if only 1 percent ever played 20 years, that has nothing to do about whether you are elite. I can find lots of players that did things that 99 percent of the players didn't and that would also mean nothing in terms of measuring an elite player. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-11-2016 at 09:16 PM. |
#9
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...
Quote:
top 60 career TB leaders....are #41 BAINES (longevity / 2800+ hits- OK, maybe) and #57 Luis Gonzalez (an OK player but, um...NO), really HOFers based solely on your argument of "HOF-worthy" underappreciated TB's???? granted, the BBWAA and veterans committee are not always correct or rational w/ their decisions, good AND bad, but do TB's REALLY qualify as an accurate HOF-worthy measuring stick??? shee-yit, Helton (#62), Damon (#72), Finley (#7) and Staub (#76) are HOF-worthy based on your argument ???, while the majority listed above them - Top 80 - seemingly had warranted careers which INCLUDED their respective TB counts - are at least more believable. sorry, I disagree, respectfully or otherwise, based on your "3000 hits vs TB's argument" as being a valid measuring stick, but... p.s. - feel free to block me should you choose - I've got THICK skin, and I have NO desire to get into an elongated back/forth debate - just thought I'd offer my imput, and RESPECTFULLY disagree with your personal viewpoint - we can all do that civilly: ain't America great! best wishes, happy collecting and...*PEACE* !!! Last edited by FourStrikes; 08-11-2016 at 09:43 PM. Reason: because I CAN!!! |
#10
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Ichiro is batting 318 with more walks than strikeouts and still plays a very good outfield with a cannon arm. He is a high end platoon player to me not replacement level. If he were released now teams would be falling all over themselves to sweep him up for the stretch run.
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#11
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Quote:
Not sure what you are arguing. I just compared total bases accomplishments versus hits even in the context of a participation award. Number 7 in all time total bases is babe ruth not Finley by the way but i am assuming that was a typo. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-12-2016 at 07:42 AM. |
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