2016 Hall of Fame Ballot, Who would you vote for?

[chaddurbin]

griffey
edgar martinez
bonds
clemens
piazza
mussina
raines

i tend to go with the best players in the era...so bonds and clemens get in from the steroids guys....sosa and mcgwire don't. bonds not in is a bigger injustice than joe jax or pete rose. no ortiz or bagwell for juice.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

griffey
edgar martinez
bonds
clemens
piazza
mussina
raines

i tend to go with the best players in the era...so bonds and clemens get in from the steroids guys....sosa and mcgwire don't. bonds not in is a bigger injustice than joe jax or pete rose. no ortiz or bagwell for juice.

Not a Sosa guy.. but he was one of the biggest offensive threats of that era. 600+ home runs, 1600+ RBI's, 1400+ runs... Pretty impressive.

As far as McGwire I think a lot of people see him as a one dimensional Dave Kingman type who only hit homers. But if you look at his stats later in his career you see that he becomes a much better hitter. Look at the how OBP and walk totals improve and he starts to hit for much better average other than the seasons with major injuries. I also think he was a pretty decent defensive player for a guy his size. Lets not forget he was a 12 time all-star in his 16 year career.

I am also of the opinion that the McGwire/Sosa homerun chase brought a lot of fans back to the game and I don't think that is something that should be over looked. Before that Summer a lot of fans had become disenchanted with the game after all the labour strife & cancelling of the World Series.

[KCRfan1]

McGwire hitting in the Home Run Derby at Fenway was classic. Just remember to turn off the sound so you don't have to listen to Behrman.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

McGwire hitting in the Home Run Derby at Fenway was classic. Just remember to turn off the sound so you don't have to listen to Behrman.

If this were facebook I would have hit the like button!

[Beatles Guy]

Mike Piazza
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Ken Griffey Jr.

If I had a vote on the Veteran's Committee: Ted Simmons and Gil Hodges.

[KCRfan1]

+1 for Simmons and Hodges

[the 'stache]

My ballot:

Piazza
Bagwell
Raines
Trammell
Griffey Jr
Edmonds
Hoffman

Yes, I would eventually vote for Clemens and Bonds to be in the Hall. They would have been Hall of Famers if they'd never juiced. But because they did, I wouldn't put their names on my first ballot. Or my second. Or third.

Originally Posted by Beatles Guy

Mike Piazza
If I had a vote on the Veteran's Committee: Ted Simmons and Gil Hodges.

+1 to this

I remember seeing Simba play at Milwaukee County Stadium as a kid. When he got the sweet spot of the bat on the ball, you could hear it all the way in Waukesha. The man was very strong. Simmons was an extra base hit machine, and there's a compelling case to be made for his induction. Here's a list of the Major League players who started at least 1,000 games at catcher, sorted by career extra base hits:

Ivan Rodriguez 934
Carlton Fisk 844
Johnny Bench 794
Mike Piazza 779
Ted Simmons 778
Yogi Berra 728
Gary Carter 726

Rodriguez is likely a first ballot Hall of Famer, and Piazza should get in soon. You mean to tell me that every guy on this list is a Hall of Famer but Simmons?

And Hodges? I'm sorry, Hodges is one player where I feel the WAR metrics simply do not do him justice. He should have been in long ago.

[Topps206]

I feel that it's wrong to give love to Gil Hodges without acknowledging someone like Keith Hernandez, who I think has a stronger case.

[hawaiian bam bam]

Griffey-1st ballot all the way, maybe even the all time votes getter beating out seavers 98.84%

Piazza-was very close last year, will make it either in 2016 or 2017

Raines-a very underrated player during his time, was on of the very best during his days, he should get a ton of votes this year.

Bonds-i think voters will start to show him some love. will probably see an increase in votes but probably 2-3 years away. still needs to work on repairing his reputation with the writes, which i think he will do this year as a hitting coach (become more approachable and nice!)

Clemens-simply the best pitcher of our time. was he on roids during his early dominating red sox days when he was legendary? if voters focus on that (non roid years) he should get in or alot closer in 2017

hoffman- mariano lite! easily the second greatest closer in baseball history. with some of the closers in the hall now, if they can make it, why not hoffman?

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

Clemens-simply the best pitcher of our time. was he on roids during his early dominating red sox days when he was legendary? if voters focus on that (non roid years) he should get in or alot closer in 2017

How do you know when Clemens (or anyone) started using? That's my biggest complaint with this "they would've been HOFers anyway" arguement. How does anyone know that these guys wouldn't have gotten hurt or tailed off dramatically? 4-5 great seasons isn't enough for HOF induction or Dwight Gooden, Maris, Strawberry and others of that caliber would be in already. Instead of the current stat lines and awards that Clemens, Bonds etc. have, what if we were looking at a 10-year career with 3-4 dominant seasons...hardly enough to merit induction. Who can say that wouldn't have happened? There are too many variables and the steroid use puts doubt over the entire bodies of these players work, making even lofty numbers like 600 career HRs seem meaningless. That doubt is the #1 reason these guys aren't in.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by dgo71

How do you know when Clemens (or anyone) started using? That's my biggest complaint with this "they would've been HOFers anyway" arguement. How does anyone know that these guys wouldn't have gotten hurt or tailed off dramatically? 4-5 great seasons isn't enough for HOF induction or Dwight Gooden, Maris, Strawberry and others of that caliber would be in already. Instead of the current stat lines and awards that Clemens, Bonds etc. have, what if we were looking at a 10-year career with 3-4 dominant seasons...hardly enough to merit induction. Who can say that wouldn't have happened? There are too many variables and the steroid use puts doubt over the entire bodies of these players work, making even lofty numbers like 600 career HRs seem meaningless. That doubt is the #1 reason these guys aren't in.

I think it's generally accepted that Bonds started using once he got to San Francisco. If there's compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it. But he'd already achieved greatness before putting on a Giants uniform. In the three seasons prior to his move out west, he'd been a two-time MVP, an MVP runner up, a three-time Gold Glove winner, and was a 30-30 player twice. His 162 game averages between 1990-1992 clearly establish him as one of the best two or three players in the game: .301 AVG, 113 runs, 36 doubles, 34 home runs, 122 RBI, 49 SB, 120 BB, .990 OPS, 177 OPS +, 8.9 WAR. While there's no way for sure to know what he'd have done had he remained in a Pirates uniform, barring injury, he was on the fast track to the Hall of Fame.

[jiw98]

I have a question for the HOF voters. If a player isn't worthy of getting in their first year of eligibility, how are they worthy a year or more later? The way I look at it is you are either good enough to be in the Hall or your not. After retirement players stats don't get better with age.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I think it's generally accepted that Bonds started using once he got to San Francisco. If there's compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it. But he'd already achieved greatness before putting on a Giants uniform. In the three seasons prior to his move out west, he'd been a two-time MVP, an MVP runner up, a three-time Gold Glove winner, and was a 30-30 player twice. His 162 game averages between 1990-1992 clearly establish him as one of the best two or three players in the game: .301 AVG, 113 runs, 36 doubles, 34 home runs, 122 RBI, 49 SB, 120 BB, .990 OPS, 177 OPS +, 8.9 WAR. While there's no way for sure to know what he'd have done had he remained in a Pirates uniform, barring injury, he was on the fast track to the Hall of Fame.

I am aware that he had a great 7 years in Pittsburgh, but that's actually my point. 7 great years does not a HOFer make. If that's the case put Don Mattingly in right now. "Well on your way to the HOF" and "worthy of the HOF" are completely different things, just ask Darryl Strawberry, Doc Gooden, etc. If all we should look at are the 7 years Bonds was supposedly clean (which is debatable, because whether it's generally accepted or not, who really knows) then I don't think he deserves HOF enshrinement any more than any other player who was very good (or even great) for such a short period of time. Dale Murphy was a two time MVP as well, with 5 Gold Gloves and 7 All-Star appearances, easily one of the top players in the league for the same amount of time that Bonds was a Pirate. Yet Murphy did it clean by all accounts, and is punished for hanging around the game and experiencing the natural decline in performance, even though his career stats make a compelling arguement for induction. Why should the track Bonds was on before allegedly using be viewed any differently than the track Murph was on?

[EvilKing00]

Piazza
bagwell
Clemens
bonds
Sheffield
McGwire
Griffey
Raines