Cheatriots At It Again....

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by rats60

I think we'd all like whatever you are smoking.

I think he was smoking some solid logic

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

solid logic

The sauna theory is 'solid logic'?

If the balls were in the sauna only for a short amount of time (just the time it would have taken to inflate them), then that's not long enough for the hot temperature to really effect the PSI. If they were in the sauna for an extended amount of time, they would be wet from the steam and the refs would have questioned a wet football (a wet football doesn't dry out quickly).

You Cheatriots fans are really grasping for straws at this point. I don't blame you though. I'm sure it's a hard fact to swallow that the team you grew up loving to root for has to cheat to get a competitive advantage.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The sauna theory is 'solid logic'?

If the balls were in the sauna only for a short amount of time (just the time it would have taken to inflate them), then that's not long enough for the hot temperature to really effect the PSI. If they were in the sauna for an extended amount of time, they would be wet from the steam and the refs would have questioned a wet football (a wet football doesn't dry out quickly).

You Cheatriots fans are really grasping for straws at this point. I don't blame you though. I'm sure it's a hard fact to swallow that the team you grew up loving to root for has to cheat to get a competitive advantage.

I'm not a Pats fan and definitely didn't grow up loving and rooting for them, when I had a multiple SB championship team in my own backyard. I also do not think the "sauna" example was to be taken literally. However let's say for example you could fill a ball with heated air. Seems this could increase/inflate air pressure until the air cooled and would guess it's not be specifically against the rules. In today's presser, Bellichek said the players do something during the prep process which increases pressure by about 1 psi, which is at 12.5 when given to the refs. Whether this is due to heat generated through rubbing, scraping... I've even heard rumor hitting it with a hammer will increase pressure, I guess assuming the flexing bladder will generate heat... if true, could possibly explain why the ball's air pressure was lower by half time on a cold day. I doubt any of this is specifically against the rules.

If the refs did their job, they checked the balls out at 12.5 psi, and the Pats didn't get the balls back until reaching the field. If they let air out after that point, though easy to do, I'd expect a camera to have caught it. We'll see, but my guess is there will be no conclusive video evidence. My first reaction was to assume the Pats did something. I just didn't care because I think the league/refs don't truly care, as they allow teams to work their game balls (refs just topped the balls off at half, didn't do anything otherwise!). After digging into it a little deeper, I am now in the camp that thinks maybe the Pats really didn't do anything specifically to take air out. I hope that is the case and I hope this story just dies out. It's overblown, overplayed, tired, and reeks of a witch hunt. Though it seems it would disappoint a lot of people if the Pats don't get theirs. That said, if they do get busted, I won't lose any sleep over it... and I still consider Tom Brady one of the greatest (maybe top) QBs ever.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The sauna theory is 'solid logic'?

If the balls were in the sauna only for a short amount of time (just the time it would have taken to inflate them), then that's not long enough for the hot temperature to really effect the PSI. If they were in the sauna for an extended amount of time, they would be wet from the steam and the refs would have questioned a wet football (a wet football doesn't dry out quickly).

You Cheatriots fans are really grasping for straws at this point. I don't blame you though. I'm sure it's a hard fact to swallow that the team you grew up loving to root for has to cheat to get a competitive advantage.

No, not enough time to affect the ball, but the air that gets added would be hot. And cooling would put them around 2 psi lower.

I didn't say I knew that was done, just that an actual scientist had suggested it and it seemed for sure like a loophole the Pats would use if they thought it would give them an edge.

I do think that while the rule would technically allow it, by the spirit of the rule it's quite shady. And I also think there will be fines, maybe a draft pick loss no matter what the NFL finds.

The NFL is one of the oddest businesses I've seen.
Grab your stuff on field? That's a $20K fine.
Sell a framed photo collection prominently including the same crotch grab? Totally ok !

Harass your own teammate so he leaves the team and nearly quits altogether? And have management know all about it? One guy gets suspended for the rest of the year. Nothing for the others or for management.

Film from the wrong spot? That's a half million and a draft pick.

Simply bizarre.

Steve B

[rats60]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I think he was smoking some solid logic

Take off your tin foil hat.

At least there's a bit of reality in your post . THE NFL Has Caught THE Patriots cheating again and they have leaked the story to gauge public reaction before they decide what to do. They don't want another Ray Rice black eye where they try to sweep this under the rug.

The nfl already did that once during Spygate where they destroyed the evidence without making it public. The bottom line is that the Patriots season will be tainted because of this and Brady and Belichick's legacy will be that of cheating.

Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. It doesn't account for the one Pat ball and 12 Colts balls that were not underinflated. How can the Pats have 11 balls be 2 psi under and the other 13 balls not? How can this have never been an issue in below zero games, but is in a 50 degree game? All the junk science can't explain this away. The laws of science apply uniformly. The Pats don't have magic balls that perform differently than the other 31 nfl teams.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by rats60

Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous

It's not my "conspiracy theory", just some things I've heard which I felt deserved as much consideration as the assertions being made by the lynch mob here. I think it's ridiculous for people to form conclusions without really knowing any of the facts.

Originally Posted by rats60

How can the Pats have 11 balls be 2 psi under

11 balls being 2 psi low is not confirmed! It came from an unidentified source and was reported by Craig Mortensen. Call me crazy, but I don't consider ESPN to be a beacon of integrity, or reporting accuracy. Back in 2007, while my wife was working for a firm that was privy to the Mitchell report, grand jury testimony, info from interviews they'd conducted, etc., an ESPN reporter was offering six figures to anyone who'd leak the player lists to him. A lot of these guys are total weasels, yet it seems the public is happy to take cues from them on how to judge others' integrity.

Originally Posted by rats60

How can this have never been an issue in below zero games

Because nobody cared! Refs, players, fans NOBODY CARED!!! Do you think they really measure and keep measuring to make sure it's between 12.5-13.5?? I'd guess balls in sub zero games are probably often outside the stated league limits, especially if a QB wants his at 12.5 to start with (OMG, you mean rules are being broken, rules are being broken!! eject, eject!!).

I highly doubt most, if any of those shouting loudest could tell a 1-2 psi difference by holding a football. I also doubt most were aware of any of these rules (I wasn't because they never come up), and not aware of the freedom and flexibility football players (and their coaches) have had from age 8 all the way up to the NFL in choosing prepping their game balls and other equipment. Yet people are jumping up and down, going nuts about this story like Tom Brady killed someone, or punched his wife, or beat his kid?? I'll say for the upteenth time, balls used up until the NFL are not uniform and vary based on manufacturer and style. This is what QBs have been used to their whole lives, and to an extent this continues in the NFL, and it's been accepted for years. I can't cut a guys head off if he's always been allowed to do whatever he's done.

Take cleats for example. 0.5" is the max length at amateur levels, yet I know we'd all used 0.75" when it was raining and muddy. I know our opponents did so as well. The refs never checked and I don't think anyone felt they were cheating, because either side could do it, and the refs didn't care to enforce it. For argument sake, what if news breaks tomorrow that Ezekiel Elliot and Ohio State used 0.75" cleats in the Championship game. Maybe the ambitious reporter "breaking" this story goes out of his way to claim it gave them an unfair footing advantage. Let's then say the public, most of whom don't know players often use 0.75" cleats, jump on the Twitter bandwagon and start yelling "cheater! cheater!". I mean, Ohio State and separately Urban Meyer have had some pretty sketchy moments in their past, so they must be breaking rules, right?!?! Oregon, and other teams' players don't come out to admit they used longer cleats too, because they don't want to also be accused of cheating.. and so on.

Scott- it does surprise me a bit if truly no other QBs are coming out defending Brady. This said, I guess most just don't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. They all saw how quickly he's been judged, so why risk the same scrutiny? I also think pro athletes are not immune to jealousy (see Terry Bradshaw late '80's when Montana was breaking his SB records, see Dolphins popping champagne when undefeated teams lose, see MLB players always voting Jeter most overrated player), and so some are probably just taking satisfaction seeing Brady squirm.

I don't find other QBs'/Teams' silence to be damning, nor do I consider the Pats team history to be damning either. Granted, Spygate was really bad, and IMO the Pats probably deserved harsher punishment (coach suspension like Payton got).. and sure, Spygate can influence your thinking, but to make the assertion- "they did that so they must have done this, and their legacy is all fake" is a stretch. The Pats are not unique in their desire to gain any edge possible. I think most NFL head coaches, chief execs possess traits that may be off-putting in the normal world (control freaks, selfish, neglectful of family/friends, etc) yet are essential to survice in the NFL. My beloved Niners, who were mentioned as being one of the great teams that didn't generate controversy like the Pats, have done their fair share of shady stuff. Eddie D, loved for his willingness to do anything for his players, was suspected to have paid players under the table shortly after the league instituted the salary cap. Seems that would be an unfair advantage to me. He was also accused of using dead people as voters while trying to pass a new stadium/mall at Candlestick Point, and eventually run from the league for involvement in a river boat casino/gambling license scandal.

Most the teams we root for have baggage. Anyone a college football fan here???? Maybe Auburn? Auburn who's alums arranged for Cecil Newton to go aboard river casinos, play machines at precise times and walk out with bags of cash? Auburn and Cam still have their trophies, and the school and SEC conference profited greatly, so I guess it's all OK, eh? The NO Saints were paying players to "attack the head" of Frank Gore and Alex Smith. Yet, the Pats have some under inflated footballs, and this is what people are clinging onto? Craziness IMO

As Mike C says, if they find evidence they're guilty of an infraction, punish them and move on. But in the grand scheme of things... and of football related violations on the whole.. this one is not that big a deal.