Thoughts on a Cassius Clay

[isaac2004]

I came across this Cassius Clay and Sonny Liston auto. I am not familiar with Ali's Clay signatures and how much they are worth, but thought it was interesting.

Can anyone give some thoughts on this?

[callou2131]

I am no expert but The few that I have seen were not as shaky as that one.

[D. Bergin]

LOL! That is just precious.

I hope they're not asking a lot for it.

[Exhibitman]

"Can anyone give me some thoughts on this"



Your seller:



The only guys possibly dumb enough to buy it:



Better way to invest your money:

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

LOL! That is just precious.

I hope they're not asking a lot for it.

Quite a large amount of money

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by isaac2004

Quite a large amount of money

Can you post the link? I'd like to see it in it's natural environment.

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Can you post the link? I'd like to see it in it's natural environment.

Its not on ebay.. Its a seller I found local

[callou2131]

Is it just me or are those written in the same hand? I am really just starting to learn about sigs so please forgive my ignorance.

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"Can anyone give me some thoughts on this"



Your seller:



The only guys possibly dumb enough to buy it:



Better way to invest your money:

lol. Too funny, but also accurate.

[RichardSimon]

That Liston is soooooo bad, he would never add an inscription to anything he signed.
When I start to see more and more of this kind of stuff I just feel that the bad guys have won this battle.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by isaac2004

Quite a large amount of money

Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.

I don't think even Coach's Corner would try to get away with that one.

[Duluth Eskimo]

This is so ridiculous it's not even funny. Liston in sharpie, that is funny.

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Is the amount a secret?
It would be a very large amount of money if real but it sure looks like it came straight out of CC.

He wanted over a grand for it.

I asked him question after question till he walked over his story (he claimed he got it in person) and then never got back to me

[RichardSimon]

That's all he wanted? Then he is a small time scam artist.
A real crooked pro would have asked for $5K at least

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

This is so ridiculous it's not even funny. Liston in sharpie, that is funny.

FWIW, permanent ink markers were mass marketed as Magic Marker in the 1950s and the Sharpie itself came to market in 1964. Both Magic Marker and Sharpie permanent ink pens were in wide use during Liston's life [he died in 1970] so a signature from that era in permanent ink marker would not present an anachronism. The issue here is that Liston was illiterate and on the rare occasions he drew his name he did not add embellishments to it. The forgery the seller is trying to scam on is a bad copy of one of the ghost signatures that Mrs. Liston used to do for her husband. Looks to me like the forger modeled his effort on this Liston publicity photo that was used to respond to his mail requests in the 1960s, and which I believe is printed from a Mrs. Liston ghosted original:



The Clay is just atrocious.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

FWIW, permanent ink markers were mass marketed as Magic Marker in the 1950s and the Sharpie itself came to market in 1964. Both Magic Marker and Sharpie permanent ink pens were in wide use during Liston's life [he died in 1970] so a signature from that era in permanent ink marker would not present an anachronism. The issue here is that Liston was illiterate and on the rare occasions he drew his name he did not add embellishments to it. The forgery the seller is trying to scam on is a bad copy of one of the ghost signatures that Mrs. Liston used to do for her husband. Looks to me like the forger modeled his effort on this Liston publicity photo that was used to respond to his mail requests in the 1960s, and which I believe is printed from a Mrs. Liston ghosted original:



The Clay is just atrocious.

Thanks, but I am aware of that history. If you can show me a Liston signature in sharpie, I will eat my words. Preferably one that was not signed yesterday like this

[Exhibitman]

Jason, I'm not saying it is good, just that the pen itself doesn't make the signature bad [anachronism: a chronological inconsistency in some arrangement]. It is possible that Liston used a permanent ink marker at some point; it would be impossible for John L. Sullivan to have done so.

[JimStinson]

I've only seen one authentic inscribed Sonny Liston in my life , Was part of a boxing collection I bought in London, that was signed in-person for the collector I bought it from. It was about a four line inscription written in BLOCK LETTERS ,

The collector who was known to Sonny and his handlers requested Sonny inscribe the photo to him. He was told to "Write Down" what he wanted Liston to write , he did and then was told to PRINT IT. Liston then just copied what he had printed and signed the photo.

Even the printing was a mess. I remember being told it was a very uncomfortable & embarrassing experience as The Bear hulked and labored over it for what seemed like forever.
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Vintage autographs for sale Daily on my web site
stinsonsports.com

[Duluth Eskimo]

Sorry for barking at you. I just think it's funny that someone even posts this for evaluation. It makes me wonder if the now banned boxing guru would have been able to give an opinion on this before going off on JSA or PSA about Liston signatures.

[Exhibitman]

No problem; we both had a good laugh at the audacity of this seller.

[RichardSimon]

delete

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Sorry for barking at you. I just think it's funny that someone even posts this for evaluation. It makes me wonder if the now banned boxing guru would have been able to give an opinion on this before going off on JSA or PSA about Liston signatures.

I always laugh/cry seeing the horsesh-- stuff that this hobby has been reduced to.
Always good for a laugh and a cry.