Another Probstein LOL

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I personally delete those without ever reading. I do understand what you are saying but Leon has said he thinks Rick does not let it(shilling) happen on purpose and it is his forum and his mass email he is making $ for sending out. I am guessing he is making money for the advertising or at least hope he is.

So who do you think we should be outraged against? Rick for advertising or Leon for sending out the email.

I'm commenting about how the peanut gallery that is always is on these threads never turn their eyes inward. If they are so focused on the hobby and making sure that no one is getting defrauded, then why hasn't anyone made the comment that I did.

Where are all of the probstien hating activists, making the comment that I made. Clearly it is a double edged sword, the peanut gallery is swinging?

Other business, chose, for the reputation of their own business to not do business with certian people as it brings their own reputation down. Think about any professional sports endorser. Think about all of the other mishaps, with television and other large companies.

Should the board set an example and not perpetuate the problem, knowing their is no activisim in the time of a growing problem?

kevin quinn

[Cardboard Junkie]

I think just about anyone should be allowed to advertise here, except that guy that used to scream, "You're gonna get the Mcgwire Rookie!" on HSN.

[CMIZ5290]

Kevin- not really sure where you're coming from....Posts about Probstein have been going on since Godzilla was a lizard. What exactly is your stance, and even more important, your solution?

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Kevin- not really sure where you're coming from....Posts about Probstein have been going on since Godzilla was a lizard. What exactly is your stance, and even more important, your solution?

My stance has been pretty clear.

1) Not everything the guy does is bad. Not every card is suspect.

2) He should do more about the problem.

3) Conversation about Rick's auctions, going back to Godzilla's infancy is worthless if the board is going to actively keep sending customers to him.

Kevin

[CMIZ5290]

Kevin- First of all, I think bid shilling is a big problem in the hobby, and a big percentage of collectors have been guilty of it. But it's not the biggest problem in the hobby, far from it. I have never done it, and I'm proud of that...I have bought tons of T206s over the past several years, and I always had a pretty good idea of where my stopping point is. Nevertheless, it is a bogus act, and should be treated as such. Having said that, I honestly think there are a huge percentage of big auctions that have this going on.... big time, IMO....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Kevin- First of all, I think bid shilling is a big problem in the hobby, and a big percentage of collectors have been guilty of it. But it's not the biggest problem in the hobby, far from it. I have never done it, and I'm proud of that...I have bought tons of T206s over the past several years, and I always had a pretty good idea of where my stopping point is. Nevertheless, it is a bogus act, and should be treated as such. Having said that, I honestly think there are a huge percentage of big auctions that have this going on.... big time, IMO....

Concur. It's widespread, but in my opinion there are significantly bigger problems.

[RGold]

Giddy Up

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Concur. It's widespread, but in my opinion there are significantly bigger problems.

So now there are bigger problems? What problems are bigger?

You are always on these threads. Do you a believe the board should sell advertising to Rick given he is turning a blind eye or not?

What is your opinion?

Kevin

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

My stance has been pretty clear.

1) Not everything the guy does is bad. Not every card is suspect.

Not everything Ted Bundy did was bad either. After all, he did volunteer work and saved a 3 yr old boy from drowning. (No, I'm NOT comparing shilling to murder; simply making a point that doing good doesn't always justify doing bad)

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

2) He should do more about the problem.

We all agree with you there

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

3) Conversation about Rick's auctions, going back to Godzilla's infancy is worthless if the board is going to actively keep sending customers to him.

Kevin

I actually agree with you there. At least until the Panky situation is cleared up I don't agree with advertising P123 either.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I think just about anyone should be allowed to advertise here, except that guy that used to scream, "You're gonna get the Mcgwire Rookie!" on HSN.

+1, that idiot wore me out....

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I think just about anyone should be allowed to advertise here, except that guy that used to scream, "You're gonna get the Mcgwire Rookie!" on HSN.

So even if Rick allows it to happen, by not proactively finding and fixing the problem, you think the board should allow him to advertise hear to the other members? What if that member doesn't see the posts and gets shill bidded on. You wouldn't say that the board has a moral responsibility to its users and readers?

Kevin

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

So even if Rick allows it to happen, by not proactively finding and fixing the problem, you think the board should allow him to advertise hear to the other members? What if that member doesn't see the posts and gets shill bidded on. You wouldn't say that the board has a moral responsibility to its users and readers?

Kevin

The Board? I get what you are saying about responsibility to the hobby. In fact, I am bidding on a couple of Pastels as we speak and the two parties I am bidding against are stopping me from budding what I would like as I suspect shilling (and it is not a Probstein auction). One bidder has 85% of bids with this seller, the other bidder has multiple retractions. Paranoia is taking over, I am out.

But I digress. The Board? Isn't this Leon's forum? Are you suggesting we make our feelings known to Leon? Doesn't he know? Should we boycott the board?

I will say this. The comments from members on this thread, among others, has made me extremely cautious and sensitive about shills. Maybe too much, in fact. Keep it coming, I'll keep learning and I thank you all for that.

Keith

[ullmandds]

But then again... Eliminating advertisers with a history of shadiness would eliminate A good portion of the advertisers?!