Who is the greatest player of the Pre-War Era?

[CMIZ5290]

Great thread Eric, I do think Mathewson has to be considered especially if pitchers are allowed into the discussion. His stats are pretty remarkable as are Walter Johnson's.....What amazes me is what Cobb's stats were against Johnson, later on in his career he had amazing success against him....

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Great thread Eric, I do think Mathewson has to be considered especially if pitchers are allowed into the discussion. His stats are pretty remarkable as are Walter Johnson's.....What amazes me is what Cobb's stats were against Johnson, later on in his career he had amazing success against him....

Kevin,

Thank you very much. I appreciate you weighing in with the kind words.

As for Mathewson, I agree. Any discussion about pitchers that does not include him is sorely missing something. I am sure that there are many who would argue he is the greatest ever...and they would be making a valid point.

Regarding Cobb, I remember a portion of Baseball: A Film by Ken Burns that touched on Cobb's approach to hitting against Johnson. Apparently, Cobb would crowd the plate and Johnson would throw outside on the first couple of pitches, for fear of hitting the batter.

Johnson would then ease up a bit and throw the ball over the plate, trying to get a strike. Cobb figured that this was the pitch to hit, knew it was coming, and simply reached out with his bat and let it meet the ball

Ty was a brilliant man, no doubt…and one of the greatest players of all time, in my humble opinion.

Best Regards,

Eric

[ElCabron]

The obvious answer is Ruth, and that's how I voted. But it's not as simple as you might think. It all depends on how you define "greatest baseball player." I think Ruth tends to get the nod by a large margin because in addition to being the best hitter (or at the very least in the top 2 ever to pick up a bat) he was also a dominant pitcher. But if we're deciding based on the greatest 2-way players, many all-time greats like Wagner and Cobb would have to take a back seat to guys like Martin Dihigo and Bullet Rogan. In fact, those 3 would probably be the finalists, with Ruth still being on top by a fairly large margin.

But the other way of evaluating it is who is the best all-around 5-tool player. This method still seems inadequate to me, but it changes who belongs in the argument. The discussion should probably include Willie Mays, Honus Wagner, Mickey Mantle, Oscar Charleston, maybe DiMaggio if you want. Even Bonds. Possibly Aaron. I wouldn't have a huge problem with you trying to slip Clemente into the argument in spite of his clear lack of power compared to others. But probably not Ruth. Probably not Josh Gibson. Not Cobb. In my opinion, Oscar Charleston tops this list. The problem is, you can argue that Ruth wasn't a swift runner or great defensive outfielder all you want, but no one in their right mind (that didn't grow up in New York as a kid in the 1950s) would take Mickey Mantle over Babe Ruth.

So the only way to really decide is by some other partly subjective manner. For me, I think there are several tiers of players that can all legitimately be included in the discussion of who is the greatest player ever. But I think there are only 4 players in the top tier that should be in the final discussion. Those players are Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Oscar Charleston, and Josh Gibson. It wouldn't offend me to include Willie Mays, but I personally don't put him in the final group. And Cobb simply doesn't belong. Get over it.

Of those 4, Babe Ruth is still my pick. But the margin isn't as big for me as it is for most other people. Charleston has a strong argument for greatest "all-around" player ever to step onto a baseball diamond. People forget that Wagner stole over 700 bases and played an important defensive position. Gibson was a better runner and defensive catcher than he gets credit for. Still, two words: Babe Ruth.

So that's my long-winded way of agreeing with almost everyone else. I mean, Ruth and the rest of these guys are all behind Frank Baker, of course. Clearly it goes Baker, then everyone else, starting with Ruth.

-Ryan

[RCMcKenzie]

When it comes to winning the World Series the best player for a manager is probably a pitcher. Would you rather have Tom Seaver on the mound or Babe Ruth in the lineup? You can always just walk Ruth. That's why I voted "other" for Cy Young. In one game I would take Kevin Brown over Babe Ruth.

[bfrench00]

NO GEHRIG!? I voted for ruth but still id say the iron horse deserves to at least on the list.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by bfrench00

NO GEHRIG!? I voted for ruth but still id say the iron horse deserves to at least on the list.

Billy,

Gehrig was in the poll choices, if I am not mistaken.

Best Regards,

Eric

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by bfrench00

NO GEHRIG!? I voted for ruth but still id say the iron horse deserves to at least on the list.

Lou Gehrig 8 3.42%

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by NoizeBringer

I think there are only 4 players in the top tier that should be in the final discussion. Those players are Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Oscar Charleston, and Josh Gibson.

-Ryan

Ryan,

You make a valid point regarding Oscar Charlestson. Please see below, from an earlier thread. The post I refer to is #93.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...60#post1107860

Best Regards,

Eric