Where can/do we report "fake autograph" sellers?

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

For you, maybe, but it's not about "telling," it's about proving before a judge and jury, which is a lot harder than many here seem to want to believe.



Agreed on all points, but what is the first step here, from a practical point of view? Local law enforcement needs actual, tangible, and irrefutible proof of something before taking prosecutorial steps. In these cases, that is very hard to gather.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...d-b-ar-251553/

Law enforcement needs a complaint to investigate. As more than one individual indicated (by the tone of their voice and lack of concern), if I was not "the injured party" there was nothing they could do. When I asked if I had to purchase a forgery in order to make a complaint, I was told by one "That's silly. If you know that is fraudulent, and you purchased it anyway, what would your complaint be?" A Catch-22 that covers either ignorance or laziness.

Yet a pawn shop was able to get 19 agencies involved.

[Mr. Zipper]

Most of these local auction houses are in small towns. So think about the logistics of prosecuting this...

The local sheriff is going to arrest the auctioneer. Then what?

The local prosecutor -- probably a district attorney with a few, if any, ADAS, is going to make a case how? Fly in high priced experts to testify the signatures are bad. Then the defense is going to claim "I didn't know... someone consigned them."

Case over. Auctioneer is acquitted.

And the local DA just spent half of his annual budget flying in experts on a losing case.

Not gonna happen.

Education of buyers, and public shaming of exposed auction houses is the only thing that will work in my opinion.

[RichardSimon]

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

Was that the Danny Dupchek case, Richard?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Was that the Danny Dupchek case, Richard?

Yes it was Steve. He was a piece of work.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Yes it was Steve. He was a piece of work.

Are you aware he moved on to the comic book hobby? He was never charged, but there is a very long line of customers who claim he is a "paper mechanic" who sold (undisclosed) restored high grade comics.

[RichardSimon]

I had heard stories about that.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

There have been far more criminals getting away with forging/selling crap then criminals who have been prosecuted or punished in some way.
BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
We have printed stories here about it.
I did it once as I outlined earlier. I also testified in a criminal case against a store selling crooked forgeries. The store was visited by the curator of the Ted Williams Museum when he was visiting Nassau County, NY. He saw Williams autographs that he knew were forged. He went to the police dept. in Nassau County and they raided the store. I testified against the owner in a criminal pre trial hearing and the owner copped a plea before a trial.

Interesting. Were the charges for forgery or fraud or...? Did the owner admit signing them himself?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Interesting. Were the charges for forgery or fraud or...? Did the owner admit signing them himself?

I believe the specific charge was for forgery. I don't remember if the owner testified but one of the store employees was also a witness and he said that he saw actual forging taking place in the store.

[Sean1125]

So these guys that go buy stuff from Coaches Corner for $300, mark it up to $500 when if real it would be $2k+ can get off by saying they were ignorant to the fact it was fake because it came with the "cert" rather than them actually being the forger?

Edit to add something (more so in addition to my initial post).

I contact them with the information and websites showing all the info they could ever need to determine real/fake. There are several who have pulled items but I would say 9/10 people I contact obviously know they have fakes yet continue to sell.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Deertick

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...d-b-ar-251553/

Law enforcement needs a complaint to investigate. As more than one individual indicated (by the tone of their voice and lack of concern), if I was not "the injured party" there was nothing they could do. When I asked if I had to purchase a forgery in order to make a complaint, I was told by one "That's silly. If you know that is fraudulent, and you purchased it anyway, what would your complaint be?" A Catch-22 that covers either ignorance or laziness.

Yet a pawn shop was able to get 19 agencies involved.

This is a great and hopeful story, but it is quite different from the cases of local auction houses discussed here for many reasons. I would be interested to know how much of the prosecution in this case was driven by PSA's cert being forged. That one is an easy one to prove.