Brooklyn CDV

[Saco River Auction]

While we all are waiting for the results, feel free to bid on the cool old judge items we have in the January 1st sale including an 1888 Grays Studio Charlie Ferguson, Old Judge N-172's and 1889 Bean Eater photo.

Again Happy Holidays

Troy

[Runscott]

Thanks for posting, Troy. I sent an email regarding the Jan 1 auction and didn't receive any response.

[Runscott]

edited after speaking with Troy

Thanks for the discussion!

[benjulmag]

While I recognize I am comparing only scans, the scans posted by the auction house do not differ in any significant way from the initial scan of the image. They exhibit a degradation in resolution (in ways having nothing to do with contrast) compared to the LOC copy that make me struggle to understand how they can be printed from the same negative. I have never before seen such differences in identical albumen photos where each are genuine. While I'm interested to hear what Mr. Messier has to say, unless he can establish that one cannot in the 21st century create an albumen photo that is chemically indistinguishable from one printed in the 19th century, I would regard his results as inconclusive.

[Saco River Auction]

There are going to be distinct differences in this Cdv and the loc one because this one is a vignette process albumen whereas the loc version is a full view non vignette version of the same pose. If you look at the photographers branding label on the rear of our Cdv it says vignette specialty.

[Saco River Auction]

The vignette process has clearly been mistaken for photo degradation. Vignette was used to make the center pieces of the pose, In this case the team, stand out, rather than the back ground. It was a very common practice in the mid 19th century especially by this photographer. Mr. Messier will be the deciding factor on this because as a scientific expert on 19th century photography there is no way to rule his results(good or bad) as inconclusive. His findings either combined with sgc or aside from sgc will be the final verdict on this card.
Troy

[GaryPassamonte]

Corey- The 1875 Hartfords CdV comes with both the actual background visible or obscured. Could this CdV have been produced in a similar manner? Also, some images from the same photo shoot are slightly different such as the those of the 1874 Red Stockings. The placement of the equipment is different in the few copies known suggesting multiple negatives. Could the Atlantics CdV be from a different negative from the same shoot? I realize there appear to be no differences between the LOC copy and the CdV, but isn't it possible they may actually be from different negatives?

[benjulmag]

Troy,

The differences in resolution pertain to the players themselves. Perhaps the vignette process caused this. If so. then I will have learned something. In addition, I will point out that the printing in the verso (where the vignette process is identified) has been mentioned as the aspect of this CdV that caused Lelands to reject it. Accordingly I would hope that as part of Mr Messier's analysis he examine the verso. Finally I must respectfully disagree with your view as to the capabilities of forensic testing. It is a negative process which tells one what something is not, as opposed to what something is. If an item flunks forensic testing, then we know it is a fake. It it passes then we can say it is consistent with authentic items but that doesn't mean it MUST be authentic. It raises then the feasibility of whether a forger could recreate the process in current times.

In saying all this I am not saying the CdV has to be a fake. Rather I am simply noting aspects of it that trouble me in the hope they will be directly addressed by Mr. Messier. I should also reiterate that while we may disagree about certain aspects about this item, I do appreciate your openness about this item and responsiveness to expressed concerns.

[e107collector]

Troy,

Great looking piece. I hope for your sake, and the sake of the hobby, everything turns out to be authentic when the expert reviews it in a few weeks.

You are doing the right thing.

Happy Holidays,

Tony

[Saco River Auction]

I just went through the email and there is no email from you. Our email is info@sacoriverauction.com or you can call me 207-650-5677 that is my cell phone and i can answer any questions you have.

Troy

[yanks12025]

Also you talk about taking a sample would damage it. I just compered the photos from ebay to in the holder and there's more damage to the upper left corner now then there use to be.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Also you talk about taking a sample would damage it. I just compered the photos from ebay to in the holder and there's more damage to the upper left corner now then there use to be.

Isn't this kind of a big deal? If nothing else it provides a newly-damaged area that could be tested - it looks like a bit of the albumen image is now missing, so perhaps some of the binder is exposed.