Comparison of checklists for T215-1 RED CROSS set vs "PIRATE" set

[Abravefan11]

I appreciate your efforts Ted, but your findings are short of what was actually going on with these sets, or subsets. I encourage you to continue looking into these sets and what may be possible regarding how they were put together. For now you're off the mark.

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

I appreciate your efforts Ted, but your findings are short of what was actually going on with these sets, or subsets. I encourage you to continue looking into these sets and what may be possible regarding how they were put together. For now you're off the mark.

Can you explain how he is off the mark? Does he have wrong information posted? Is he missing cards, have cards listed that don't exist? Or do you have information that you just don't want to share?

I have no personal experience with this set but enjoy reading threads like this where info is shared. Hope you can build on what is already here.

[tedzan]

If Mr Cathy didn't post it....he does not like it. It's simply his mentality. He has resorted to this type of criticism several times before.
So, just ignore his remarks.

The "PIRATE" list of 97 cards, I have gleaned from several sources. I think it is very accurate. However, the RED CROSS list needs to
be updated....as the current cataloging of these 96 cards is not completely correct.
Therefore, my reason for posting this thread; besides, being informative.

My research (so far) indicates 10 subjects in the RED CROSS set have team changes from their T206 counterparts. There are more
team changes forthcoming, but they have not yet been confirmed.

Furthermore, the list of subjects in this 96-card set is not completely confirmed; and, may require changes.

Let's hope this proves to be a meaningful exercise.

Best regards,

TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by camlov2

Can you explain how he is off the mark? Does he have wrong information posted? Is he missing cards, have cards listed that don't exist? Or do you have information that you just don't want to share?

Yes, Yes, and Yes are the answers to your first three questions. Regarding your last question, I'm always happy to add whatever I can to the discussion if there is interest in what I have to say. I'll post more information about these sets later.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Yes, Yes, and Yes are the answers to your first three questions. Regarding your last question, I'm always happy to add whatever I can to the discussion if there is interest in what I have to say. I'll post more information about these sets later.

Tim, there is definitely interest in what you have to say. These are two sets that are tough for some of us to get a handle on, so anything you, Ted or anyone else has to add is going to be interesting to us.

I have some questions about what Ted posted, but I'll wait to see what you add.

[Abravefan11]

This is the T215-1 checklist I have and some additional information for the discussion.

1 Ames New York Nat'l
2 Baker Philadelphia Amer.
3 Ball Cleveland
4 Bender (w/ Trees) Philadelphia Amer.
5 Bender (No Trees) Philadelphia Amer.
6 Bridwell Boston Nat'l
7 Byrne Pittsburgh
8 Camnitz Pittsburgh
9 Chance Chicago Nat'l
10 Chase New York Amer.
11 Cobb Detroit
12 Collins Philadelphia Amer.
13 Conroy Washington
14 Crandall New York Nat'l
15 Crawford Detroit
16 Cree New York Amer.
17 Davis Cleveland
18 Devore New York Nat'l
19 Donlin Pittsburgh
20 Doolan (Batting) Philadelphia Nat'l
21 Doolan (Fielding) Philadelphia Nat'l
22 Dougherty Chicago Amer.
23 Doyle (w/ Bat) New York Nat'l
24 Doyle (Portrait) New York Nat'l
25 Elberfeld Washington
26 Ford New York Amer.
27 Fromme Cincinnati
28 Griffith Washington
29 Hartsel Toledo
30 Hoblitzell Cincinnati
31 Hofman Chicago Nat'l
32 Howard Chicago Nat'l
33 Huggins (Portrait) St. Louis Nat'l
34 Huggins (Hands at Mouth) Cincinnati
35 Hummel Brooklyn
36 Jennings (One Hand) Detroit
37 Jennings (Two Hand) Detroit
38 Johnson Washington
39 Konetchy St. Louis Nat'l
40 Krause Philadelphia Amer.
41 Lajoie Cleveland
42 Lake St. Louis Amer.
43 Latham New York Nat'l
44 Leach Pittsburgh
45 Leifield Pittsburgh
46 Lord Chicago Amer.
47 Magee Philadelphia Nat'l
48 Manning New York Nat'l
49 Marquard (Portrait) New York Nat'l
50 Marquard (Pitching) New York Nat'l
51 Mathewson (Dark Cap) New York Nat'l
52 Mathewson (White Cap) New York Nat'l
53 McGinnity Newark
54 McGraw (Portrait w/ Cap) New York Nat'l
55 McGraw (Glove at Hip) New York Nat'l
56 McIntyre Chicago Nat'l
57 Merkle New York Nat'l
58 Meyers New York Nat'l
59 Miller Pittsburgh
60 Mowery St. Louis Nat'l
61 Murphy Philadelphia Amer.
62 Murray New York Nat'l
63 Oakes St. Louis Nat'l
64 O'Leary Detroit
65 Paskert Philadelphia Nat'l
66 Pelty St. Louis Amer.
67 Quinn New York Amer.
68 Reulbach Chicago Nat'l
69 Rucker Brooklyn
70 Schaefer Washington
71 Schulte Chicago Nat'l
72 Sheckard Chicago Nat'l
73 Smith Cincinnati
74 Smither (sic) Montreal
75 Speaker Boston Amer.
76 Stahl Boston Amer.
77 Steinfeldt St. Louis Nat'l
78 Street (Portrait) New York Amer.
79 Street (Catching) New York Amer.
80 Sweeney New York Amer.
81 Tannehill Chicago Amer.
82 Tinker (Bat on Shoulder) Chicago Nat'l
83 Tinker (Bat off Shoulder) Chicago Nat'l
84 Wagner Boston Amer.
85 Warhop New York Amer.
86 Wheat Brooklyn
87 White Chicago Amer.
88 Willetts Detroit
89 Wilson Pittsburgh
90 Wiltse (Portrait w/ Cap) New York Nat'l
91 Wiltse (Pitching) New York Nat'l
92 Young Boston Nat'l

I didn't check the entire list in the OP yet, but I did notice Chance should be the bat off pose, not yellow portrait.

This is additional player information to add to what is in the OP that is important to dating the set.

Bridwell-Boston Nat’l---July 22, 1911 Traded by New York to Boston Nat’l
Davis-Cleveland---October 1911 named Cleveland manager
Paskert-Philadelphia Nat’l---November 12, 1910 Traded to Philadelphia Nat’l
Street-NY Amer---February 17, 1912 Traded to New York from Washington
Young-Boston Nat’l---Signed contract with Boston Nat'l Feb 1, 1912 - retired May 24, 1912

Every subjects team designation in the T215-1 set is where they were in the first few months of 1912 with the exception of two. The two are Howard-Chicago Nat'l and Manning-New York Nat'l. Howard did not play for Chicago after 1909 and Manning did not play for New York after 1910.

There are players that have no statistics with their designated team in 1912 but were with them at the beginning of the year.

Conroy-Washington---Retired/Cut prior to the season in March 1912
Dougherty-Chicago Amer---Retired in late February 1912 prior to the season.
Elberfeld-Washington---Retired/Cut prior to the season in March 1912


I'll add more regarding the Pirate set later.

[teetwoohsix]

Great stuff guys.

Tim, I'm always interested in what you have to say; keep posting

I was wondering about Smither (sic) Montreal last night as I was reading this thread and looking at the checklists in Lipset's Volume 3, as I didn't see it on Ted's list.

I'm hesitant to bring these things up, as I don't want to come across as "confrontational". Unfortunately, sometimes my posts read that way when they aren't.

Great thread, love the information !!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I was wondering about Smither (sic) Montreal last night as I was reading this thread and looking at the checklists in Lipset's Volume 3, as I didn't see it on Ted's list.

Smith began the 1912 season with Cincinnati and was sold to Montreal in June.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Every subjects team designation in the T215-1 set is where they were in the first few months of 1912 with the exception of two. The two are Howard-Chicago Nat'l and Manning-New York Nat'l. Howard did not play for Chicago after 1909 and Manning did not play for New York after 1910.

The quote is from a post I made earlier in the the thread. It can be amended to add Huggins (Hands At Mouth)-Cincinnati. Huggins was traded by Cincinnati to St. Louis February 3, 1910.