Scan 1939 Play Ball Frank Hayes PSA/DNA Goof!

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Posted By: Brian

i can not find the other thread.. here is the scan of the "authentic" card

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Posted By: Fred C

Here's the link to the other thread...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1230937818/last-1231001517/PSA-DNA+Goofed..+Scan+Added+-+1939+Play+Ball+Frank+Hayes

I can't say I'm amazed or surprised by it because now it's to the point where "Ive seen it all" well almost...

5 days into the new year and I've still kept my New Years resolution of not bashing PSA... boy that resolution really sucks... I didn't say PSA sucked, I said the resolution sucked so I'm still in tact with the resolution...

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Posted By: Robert Klevens

PSA/DNA doesn't care. Here is a fake Sadaharu Oh autograph.
I specialize in Japanese autographs. I spoke with them before and they could care less if they are real or not.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250255476959>

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Posted By: Brian

when i got the card, i got it becausei thought i could make a good profit on the card.. that is why i got it "authenticated". i still need the money but i can not honestly sell this card knowing it is not real.



for years i have seen unauthenticated signatures on eBay and the seller usually states that he does not trust 3rd party authentication.. i always thought this was just an excuse so they could sell forged signatures with no COA..



but now, it seems like they were right in theory all along.. this card is certified, but clearly not legit..



what would you do if you had this card?

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Posted By: Robert Klevens

Brian-
I think if you contact PSA/DNA with the evidence of the other cards with the similar handwriting on Ebay they will buy it from you to keep it off the market.

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Posted By: Fred C

Brian,

How much do you have into that card (ebay cost, shipping fees, PSA authenticating fees)?

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Posted By: Brian

i have $6 in the card, $15 for authenticating, and about $10 in shipping.. a buddy sent it in for me using his account so i had a lot of shipping charges.

i know i can only expect to get what i have in the card, but.....

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Posted By: Brian

i think i would rather keep the card for conversation than get $25 for it.

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Posted By: rand

IS this an Embarassment for PSA?

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Posted By: Fred C

Brian,

You read my mind. I wanted to buy it from you and have it for the same reason... it's a great conversation piece.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hold onto it, Brian.

1- Learn from it... a fellow needs to know what he's buying, and not trust 3rd party graders to get it right. The slabs are convenient protection for the card while in transit, and that is about all. It reminds me of what I heard was said to a radiologist by an ER physician while they looked at a couple who'd been carted into the ER after a motorcycle accident, "The helmet only helps you find the head."

2- One day, if I win Powerball, I might build a huge, multi-story museum dedicated to baseball cards. One floor (maybe the basement, so that weight support would be less of an issue) could be dedicated to mis-slabbed cards. There's zillions of 'em. You could put your card on loan there.

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Posted By: Brian

the part of me that says GGRRRRR to PSA wants me to out the card on
PSA with a million dollar BIN jsut to shed some light on the subject.

i sent PSa an email today.. lets see what they have to say.

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Posted By: Sean

What did they ever say about this card?

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Posted By: Brian

no word as of yet..

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Posted By: peter ullman

psa will say..."oops" and offer you your $20 back.

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Posted By: Sean BH

I'm thinking Pete is right...if they really even care. Like you said it might be fun to list it on eBay for a million BIN, it will only cost you $.35!

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

If you list it as suggested above, offer free shipping. That always helps!!!

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Posted By: Fred C

PSA will proabably also "de-certify" the certification number as if the card was never sent in for authentication. In the future you'll checkt he cert number and it will come up non-existent. Put the card in the BST, I'm sure someone will buy it... me....

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Posted By: Brian

Fred.. email me - bcrott@msophs.com.. or look on ebay with item #330298914373

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Posted By: dennis

http://tinyurl.com/9omzw7

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Posted By: Frank L.

This is a 1939 Playball of Charlie Gehringer that was part of a prewar lot I obtained about 4 years ago. It was the only card with writing on it. See bottom of card. I dont collect autographs. I believe this is not real based on other scans I have seen of his signature. I include it out of interest for this thread.

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Posted By: Fred C

That's a great ebay item. I really like the fact that it's up for a 30 day auction. That is really neat! Somehow I doubt that PSA will fork out $4K for it but it's free advertisement for them!

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Posted By: Steve

What's really neat is the way he has MS tied into it.

Steve

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Posted By: Steve F

Brian, It would be more likely to sell if 100% instead of half went towards your disease, ehh?

Hmm, auctions gone. Sold?

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Posted By: Brian

the auction was stopped for key word violations.. so now i am giving a Babe Ruth reprint card to the winner..

the new auction number is

330299028590

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Posted By: Steve

Brian, It would be more likely to sell if 100% instead of half went towards your disease, ehh?


I think Brian is more concerned with making a quick buck then helping MS.

I was going to donate a few bucks to MS through his sigline over at CU but
it lead me to his personal Pay pal account and not MS.


Also with his feedback and previous sale of a fake auto this item seems
right up his alley.

Steve

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Posted By: leon

So the card that is worth about $25 on a good day is being sold for $4000 obo.....and $2000 of that will go to MS? I think I need to get into the charity business....

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Posted By: Brian

if the card sells, that i great.. i am listing in on ebay witha 30 day auction.. notice that? if i really wanted it sold, i would do a 3 day auction right?

oh, and what fake autograps are you talking about? you really need to explain yourself before you start making statements like that.

this post as the auction is to raise awarness to teh fact the PSA/DNA is not the be all end all that so many think it is.

and the MS donations does go to my paypal account... i have had many donations, and they all get forwarded to the MS Association.

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Posted By: Brian

can the person who has the scan of the Frank Dumase "signed" card please email me the picture? i would like to include it in the auction to compare the 2 "Frank" signatures.

thanks

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Posted By: leon

I am just curious. You have the card listed at $4000 and half of that will go to MS. If you are really trying to help MS it would seem like 98% would go there...and you would still make a profit on the card at $80? I think helping charities, and volunteering, are very noble causes. best regards

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Posted By: Brian

Leon,

thanks for the input. i just raised teh donation amount to 75%.

i would like to sell it, and everything that goes with it, but i would also like to keep it to shed llight on the 3rd party authentication.

In your opinion, do you think this card would sell if the donation percentage was higher than 75%?

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Posted By: Brian

90% is now going to charity, after eBay fees ($123.00 FVF) i will get the $250 i was expecting to get if the card was indeed real and sold.

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Posted By: DJ

There are a couple of things you are not taking into consideration.

By selling something that you know is worthless, all you are asking for is a donation. Why would anyone want a fake autograph for that price? All you are saying is "give me $4,000 and here's your worthless signature, but proof that PSA/DNA doesn't know what they are doing!".

Second, the autograph is a forgery. You can't announce to the eBay world that you are selling a forgery because selling fraudulent autographs, believe it or not, is prohibited. The item will get taken down everytime and if you throw it up a few times, your account will probably be suspended.

DJ

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Posted By: leon

I was just making an observation. I never like to tell folks what to donate of volunteer for...Good luck with the auction....

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

As was just stated you aren't going to be able to sell this on ebay stating that it isn't a legit autograph. PSA will likely just compensate you for your actual expenses--take that and consider yourself lucky. Looking to profit from this situation, even while giving some money to a charity just seems really disingenuine to me and many others. The fact that you would have made $250 if the item was legit is silly because the item IS NOT legit.
-Rhett

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Posted By: Brian

DJ,

the card is not a forgery, as in teh ad, it states teh the original owner simply wrote the players names on the front of the card.

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Posted By: marty q

brian, i think steve is reffering to your ebay negative about selling a fake autograph!! being kind of a hypocrite are you not! lets see, psa made a mistake that "all" needs to see and hear, but you being accused of selling a fake jordon auto gets a pass?? why did you get so upset when steve mentioned it? and making it right after the fact dont wash. you tried to make money on this and tied it to m.s., i have a very close family member with m.s, matter of fact just had a major back operation that went bad because of his crooked spine, when he collected for m.s. he never said he was keeping half!! he always said 100% goes towards the cause, from the get-go you should have did an auction with no rsv. with all going to m.s!! including the whole few bucks you have into it!!! you messed up twice, exposing a psa "bad' has exposed your ebay history of selling a fake jordon auto., and using m.s to make $2,000 grand. and the fact that what steve said makes me wonder. a donantion attempt goes right to your pay pal acct.??? holy cow what is that!!!

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Posted By: Brian

ok,

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Posted By: Brian

let me address 1 issue at a time.. the Jordan was sold for a friend, it was a statue, i refunded teh buyer after he returned the statue.. no harm, no foul.

MS is not an excuse to make $2000. i would love to have the entire $4000, but i thought it would have been a good gesture ot donate some of the money..

what should be seen as a good deed (i do not have to donate a red cent) is seen as greed?

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Posted By: quan

now i see why you didn't post this on the CU board...they would've jumped on you much faster with your history and been less civil about it.

either contact psa so they can reimburse your cost for the mistake, or keep it to embarass PSA or whatever. stop trying to look for a handout and cloak it as some noble charity deed, you're not fooling anyone here.

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Posted By: Steve

From this sellers feedback page:


Negative feedback ratingBUYERS BEWARE! SAID ITEM WAS HANDSIGNED BY JORDAN BUT WAS NOT. REFUSED REFUND!!!
imqru1042 ( 1371 [Feedback score is 1,000 to 4,999] )
Apr-30-08 14:45


*
Follow-up by imqru1042 (May-06-08 13:34):
YES!!! THIER IS JUSTICE AFTER ALL. YOU LIED, YOU STOLE MY MONEY. NOW YOUR NLARU1

-- (#330209405438)



Care to elaborate on that one?


Steve

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Posted By: Frank L.

Brian

MS is a bad disease, I have dealt with many who have it. Good luck to you. God be with you in your future struggles with it.

Sincerely

Frank L.

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Posted By: Jeff

"MS is not an excuse to make $2000. i would love to have the entire $4000, but i thought it would have been a good gesture ot donate some of the money..

what should be seen as a good deed (i do not have to donate a red cent) is seen as greed?"

I'm not linking to your new auction since you took the last one down but why have you now removed the charity portion? Now it does look like your greedy.


Jeff

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Posted By: Steve

Quan he did post about it over there, at first it was how he found this great card
for .99 because the seller listed it in the wrong category. NO MENTION was made that
he (the previous seller) said in the auction that it was not a legit signature.
Something he know says.

Also, when he sent it in and he first saw that it was
authenticated he was on cloud nine, again NO MENTION that the previous seller
said it was not legit. ONLY after he came here and asked for advice and found out
that it was not legit did he change his tune. Up to 2 days ago he said " I will wait to see
how this gets resolved by PSA I have an email into Joe" He gave Joe all of 1 day to reply!

Last night the thread he originally started was poofed by a mod.

I stand by my comments regarding his selling of a fake Jordan in the past.

Either he is a liar or the buyer is.

Steve

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Posted By: Brian

Steve,

did you read the eBay auction.. i stated what the original seller said in his auction, and what i thought.. (i thought he was mistaken).. in my CU post, i even linked to the auction..

oh, and the jordan thing again.. i was NARU'd because i changed my credit card on file and i became late in my seller fees.. once paid, i was reinstated.

come on guys, give it all you got.. everything i have done is justified..

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Posted By: Steve

1.......When you first brought that card to the attention of the folks over at CU
YOU MADE NO MENTION of what the seller said in his auction. Who cares what you know said?

2....Who cares why you got Naru'd? You sold a fake Jordan auto according to the feedback.


If you want to debate this at least stay on topic.


Steve

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Posted By: DJ

"...the card is not a forgery, as in teh ad, it states teh the original owner simply wrote the players names on the front of the card."

Sorry, if it is not signed by Frank himself, it is in fact a dis-genuine item and prohibited to be sold on eBay.

Regardless of who signed it, it was not signed by Frank and therefore not legitimate.

And I think we are all a little uncomfortable with you tying MS to this.

What you are trying to do is donate a large sum of money to a charity, but you are doing it by trying to make a company look bad and you are trying to make a .99 sale into what it would sell for if legit (a hearty profit) as well.

Put up some stuff that isn't a goof and in fact legitimate and donate the procedes to MS in that manner. No matter what % that would be.

DJ

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Posted By: Brian

one more thing.. you may wonder where i got the $4000 figure from.. well, it is the max amount eBay will let you put for a BIN where hte buyer has to do an instant payment.

the reason for instant payment.. so someone does not use the BIN with no intention of buying.

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Posted By: marty q

oh my god already!!! it's ....thethethethethethethe..........not...........t ehtehtehtehtehtehtehteh

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Posted By: Steve

"let me address 1 issue at a time.. the Jordan was sold for a friend, it was a statue, i refunded teh buyer after he returned the statue.. no harm, no foul."


For you maybe, the buyer thought otherwise.


Steve