Ebay Postcard Warning

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

These are not made by Burke and Brace...they were made in the 1970s by Jim Rowe who bought all of Burke and Brace's negatives...I emailed the seller who told me he bought them from a Mastro auction and he says he is inclined to believe Mastro over me.

Those of you looking at these Kodak backed postcards should know that I am right and Mastro is wrong (If indeed Mastro did sell them with that description). These have been discussed more than a few times here at Net54 with one member even saying that he had ordered some from Jim Rowe's daughter only 5 years ago.

http://tinyurl.com/4j9mz9

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Posted By: Walter

Interestingly enough, I have a few with what looks like the same handwriting on the back. I've had these for at least 15-20 years, but can't remember where I got them.





Always looking for T59 Flag cards and T113 Types of Nations.
http://www.t59flags.com

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Posted By: Joe Brennan

Kodak 1950-Present


In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Brace himself died recently, so reprints could be by him. Obviously, the postcard can't be from the 1930s due the Kodak stampbox. It appears to be a Burke image and, due to clarity and detail, possibly from the original negative.

The seller has some vintage original Burkes so he may have acquired a collection. If you buy a photographer's or newspaper's archives you'll usually get all sorts of stuff, as even photographers sometimes made reprints of their old photos.

One last note, Brace typically wrote the subject's name in blue ballpoint pen on the 8x10 photos he made, including reprints.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The seller bought a huge lot from Mastro and says he uses Mastro's description in his auction. Does anyone know which auction and lot he would have won these? I'd like to take a look. I asked the seller, but he did not respond to my request.

Thanks

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

"Brace typically wrote the subject's name in blue ballpoint pen on the 8x10 photos he made, including reprints."

This a tradition Brace's daughter Mary continues to uphold. Like her father, she uses block lettering.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My off the cuff guess is that the guy won a "Burke & Brace collection," which included a variety of years and types-- original 1930s Burkes to Brace reprints. If so, the collection may at some point have been purchased from Brace or his family.

Mastro knows the difference between an original Burke and a Rowe or Brace reprint, so I would assume the lot was described as having an assortment.

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Posted By: John Wondowski

I am not the ebay seller referenced in the OP, but it is kinda weird as my situation mirrors the seller in questions quite closely. I did buy a huge lot from Mastro this past spring of George Burke photos and they were correctly described. I haven't noticed another large lot going off recently. Here is a link to my listings with all photos having the Burke Studio stamping on the reverse: http://tinyurl.com/4zvq7r


There were several hundred in the lot of 2500+ that did not have the correct cataloguing markings on the reverse, but were obviously part of the original grouping. I elected to sell those in bulk at a discount.

I have emailed this seller to try to buy a large quantity of his photos as he does have some Type I 8" x 10" available, but he said they were on consignment and that could not be done.

Here is an example of proper markings on the photo:

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

That is what Burke photos should look like...I am not aware of Burke producing Kodak postcards, but it fits with what Jim Rowe was doing in the 1970s...heck even some of Jim Rowe's stuff is cataloged in the SCD..it is all attributable to the 1970s. Can anyone find reference to these Kodak postcards in any hobby material from the 1950-60s. Any oldtimers that remember them being around before the 70's?

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Dan,

I can assure you that Burke did in fact issue RPPC's, as I have a couple of them which date to the late 1930's-early 1940's. Unfortunately, I am not currently near them to back up my claim with scans. They also have Burke's hand stamp in the lower corner, as well as the postcard back. Definitely type 1. Actually, one of them was given to me by a former Dodger who had Vince DiMaggio sign it in-person in 1939. The other RPPC I have is of Pete Fox (depicted in Red Sox garb).

Jodi

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jodi, do they have Kodak backs?

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Dan,

I really can't recall. I'll try to remember to take a look the next time I see them. They do have postcard backs, and most certainly date from the playing days of DiMaggio and Fox.

Jodi

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Dan, I think we all agree that these eBay Kodak postcards are from later. The Kodak stampbox didn't exist in the 1930s-40s.

Any photo with the Burke's name and Belmont Ave Chicago address, as shown above, was by Burke himself. That was his personal stamp. If a collector sees that stamp on a Babe Ruth photo, he doesn't have to worry about if it's a reprint by Brace, Rowe or anyone else.

Brace himself made some nice originals from later years, ala Willie Mays and Stan Musial. These usually had his name, 'George Brace,' stamped on back.

And, for those lurkers who don't know by now, Burke and Brace were both Chicago baseball photographers and business partners. Brace was much younger, outlasted Burke by a few decades, and made both his own originals, reprints of Burke photos and owned much of Burke's original archives. Which explains why a small collection from Brace's archives might contain originals and reprints from a range of years. Brace essentially ran a photo service, making and providing images upon request. No doubt he also sold photos directly to the public too. His contemporary Jim Rowe, also of Chicago, was similar but marketed collectible photos to baseball fans-- postcards, small photos, etc. The earlier Burke was a professional photographer, who was paid to photograph players and teams, but also sold photos to players, the public and no doubt magazines and books. Even in his day, Burke was regarded as one of the premier baseball photograhers, hired to shoot the 1933 Goudey set, team photographer of the Cubs, White Sox and NFL Bears and preferred photographer of folks like Ruth and DiMaggio. In those days, he hired a young assistant named Brace.

A lot of 1930s Babe Ruth autographs are on George Burke photos (Burke stamp on back). That's because Ruth bought the photos directly from Burke to fulfill fan requests. Babe Ruth gave his personal thumbs up to Burke's photography skills, and amongst baseball fans there's probably no higher honor than that.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I know that we can agree to that David, it's just that I think the seller is under the impression that he has period postcards of 1930s players. I don't want forum members to think they are bidding on prewar postcards when these are clearly not which is why I posted the warning.

I still would like someone to come forward if they remember these Kodak postcards at card shows or in hobby publications before the 1970s. I've owned a ton of these and when you've handled stuff from all eras on a regular basis you can kind of get a feel for when something was made and these Kodak postcards don't "feel" or look older than 1970s to me.