1889 Goodwin's (N162) TRADEMARK......SURVEY

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Due to several requests, I am starting this Survey in order to identify which cards (if not all 50 Subjects) in
the N162 set are found with the "GEO. HARRIS & SONS, LITH. PHILA." TradeMark (TM).

What prompted this exercise is the current Mastro Auction (Lot #1, N162 set with NO TM cards) that makes
the claim that......"This format is virtually unknown to United States hobbyist."

I beg to differ....I have an N162 set with NO TM; and, I contend that a complete N162 set with all 50 cards
WITH the TM is undeniably the RARE version. This set's TM cards are much tougher to find than the NO TM.
For 18 years I have been trying to complete a 2nd set with the TM on all 50 cards....so far, I have only 26.
Furthermore, there remains an uncertainty that all these 50 cards were printed with the TM.
Therefore, I have initiated this Survey.



__________________________________________________ ___/\_______________/\________






The following 33 - N162's have been confirmed with the TM......

UPDATED 8/19/08

Acton..............Wrestler
Albert..............Pedestrian
Andrews...........Baseball
Anson..............Baseball
Beecher............Football
Buffalo Bill Cody....Wild West Hunter
Caruthers..........Baseball
Daly.................Billiards
Dempsey...........Pugilist
D'Oro................Pool
Fitzgerald..........Pedestrian
Gandaur............Oarsman
Glasscock..........Baseball
Keefe................Baseball
Kelly.................Baseball
McLaughlin........Jockey
Mitchell.............Pugilist
Muldoon.............Wrestler
Myers................Runner
Prince...............Bicyclist
Rowe.................Bicyclist
Schaefer............Billiards
Sears................Lawn Tennis
Sexton..............Billiards
Slosson.............Billiards
Jem Smith..........Pugilist
Steinmetz..........Chess
Stevens.............Bicyclist
Sullivan..............Pugilist
Vignaux..............Billiards
Chas. Wood........Bicyclist
Teemer..............Oarsman
Zukertort...........Chess



Incidently, you can see the same high quality of color lithography that the Geo. Harris & Sons Litho. did in
producing the various Bird cards (circa 1889) that were inserted in the Allen & Ginter Cigarette packs.






OK, guys and gals....we have us another Survey going on here....please chime in with you inputs on your
N162 cards. Preferably, just the ones with the TM printed on their backs. And, let's see if we can confirm
the remaining 17 cards ?


Edited to update the confirmed TM list.



TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Craig H

Ted,

I have 14 N162s and 9 of them have the TM on the back. And a few of them are ones you didn't have listed:

Acton--Wrestler
Fitzgerald--Pedestrian
Prince--Bicyclist
Teemer--Oarsman
Zukertort--Chess

Craig H

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

CRAIG H

Thanks very much for your inputs. I have added them to my confirmed list.

I believe we can eventually confirm all 50 Subjects with the TM.

So, Net54er's....how about it ? Show or tell us about your N162 cards with the TRADEMARK line ? ?


TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

As previously stated my only N162, Kelly, does not have the trademark....Good luck in the quest. I know many Net54'ers have some of these so hope they will chime in. regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Ted, nice work! Great topics like this are what make this board worth reading.

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott M.

Hi Ted,

You already have this information but my lone N162 is Andrews and he does have the trademark on the back.

Scott

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks to two Net54 readers, we have 4 additional N162's confirmed with the TM line.....we now have 37.

Due to several requests, I am starting this Survey in order to identify which cards (if not all 50 Subjects) in
the N162 set are found with the "GEO. HARRIS & SONS, LITH. PHILA." TradeMark (TM).

What prompted this exercise is the current Mastro Auction (Lot #1, N162 set with NO TM cards) that makes
the claim that......"This format is virtually unknown to United States hobbyist."

I beg to differ....I have an N162 set with NO TM; and, I contend that a complete N162 set with all 50 cards
WITH the TM is undeniably the RARE version. This set's TM cards are much tougher to find than the NO TM.
For 18 years I have been trying to complete a 2nd set with the TM on all 50 cards....so far, I have only 26.
Furthermore, there remains an uncertainty that all these 50 cards were printed with the TM.
Therefore, I have initiated this Survey.



__________________________________________________ ___/\_______________/\________








The following 37 - N162's have been confirmed with the TM......

UPDATED 8/20/08

Acton..............Wrestler
Albert..............Pedestrian
Andrews...........Baseball
Anson..............Baseball
Beecher............Football
Brouthers..........Baseball
Buffalo Bill Cody....Wild West Hunter
Caruthers..........Baseball
Daly.................Billiards
Dempsey...........Pugilist
D'Oro................Pool
Dunlap..............Baseball
Fitzgerald..........Pedestrian
Gandaur............Oarsman
Glasscock..........Baseball
Keefe................Baseball
Kelly.................Baseball
McLaughlin........Jockey
Mitchell.............Pugilist
Muldoon.............Wrestler
Myers................Runner
Prince...............Bicyclist
Rowe.................Bicyclist
Rowell................Pedestrian
Schaefer............Billiards
Sears................Lawn Tennis
Sexton..............Billiards
Slosson.............Billiards
Jem Smith..........Pugilist
Steinmetz..........Chess
Stevens.............Bicyclist
Sullivan..............Pugilist
Vignaux..............Billiards
Teemer..............Oarsman
Chas. Wood........Bicyclist
Wood................Jockey
Zukertort...........Chess



Incidently, you can see the same high quality of color lithography that the Geo. Harris & Sons Litho. did in
producing the various Bird cards (circa 1889) that were inserted in the Allen & Ginter Cigarette packs.






OK, guys and gals....we have us another Survey going on here....Please show or tell us of your N162 cards.
Preferably, just the ones with the TM printed on their backs. And, let's see if we can confirm the remaining
13 cards ?


TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I knew you would have Andrews......as he is a Phillies player.

Is he the 1st color BB card of a Phillies player in a major set ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks to a Net54 reader, we have one more to add to the Trademark (TM) list of N162's......

Emil Voss......The Strongest Man in the World.....(as touted to be in 1888).






Now we have confirmed 38 cards with the TM....so, there are 12 remaining and I'm confident
that we will find that all 50 Subjects in the N162 set were printed with the TM.

So, how about it....you N162 collectors on this Forum....let's get your inputs ?


Thanks,

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Does anyone have any idea what the distribution between the TM and non-TM cards might be? Any logical guesses?

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott M.

I guess it depends on your definition of card, etc...

If you consider the 1887 Tobins series as cards then this card which depicts Charlie Ferguson might be considered the first color card depicting a Phillies player?



Otherwise, I would guess any Phillies player from the Buchner N284 set would qualify as it was issued in 1887 before N28 and N162 the following year.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

So far, the input data from this thread, and the prior thread, and my recorded data
on this TM vs NO TM is......


415 = NO TM

107 = TM
____
522 = total cards


107/522 = 20.5 % of the sampling, to date, have the TM line.



TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Masson

13/50 have the TM in my set.
The following have a TM and are not yet included on your list:
Murphy, jockey
Captain Bogardus, marksman
Mackenzie, chess
Kilrain, pugilist
Beach, oarsman
Carrison, jockey
Wood, jockey

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thank you very much for your inputs to this survey. These cards increase the list of confirmed N162's
with the TM to 44 subjects.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Confirmed list of N162 Subjects with TRADEMARK line.

UPDATED 8/23/08......44 cards

Acton..............Wrestler
Albert..............Pedestrian
Andrews...........Baseball
Anson..............Baseball
Beach..............Oarsman
Beecher............Football
Captain Bogardus....Marksman
Brouthers..........Baseball
Buffalo Bill Cody......Wild West Hunter
Carrison............Jockey
Caruthers..........Baseball
Daly.................Billiards
Dempsey...........Pugilist
D'Oro................Pool
Dunlap..............Baseball
Fitzgerald..........Pedestrian
Gandaur............Oarsman
Glasscock..........Baseball
Keefe................Baseball
Kelly.................Baseball
Kilrain...............Pugilist
Mackenzie.........Chess
McLaughlin........Jockey
Mitchell.............Pugilist
Muldoon.............Wrestler
Murphy..............Jockey
Myers................Runner
Prince...............Bicyclist
Rowe.................Bicyclist
Rowell................Pedestrian
Schaefer............Billiards
Sears................Lawn Tennis
Sexton..............Billiards
Slosson.............Billiards
Jem Smith..........Pugilist
Steinitz.............Chess
Stevens.............Bicyclist
Sullivan..............Pugilist
Vignaux..............Billiards
Teemer..............Oarsman
Voss..................Strongest Man
Chas. Wood........Bicyclist
Wood................Jockey
Zukertort...........Chess


The remaining six Subjects still needed to be confirmed are......

Beeckman...........Lawn Tennis
Dwight...............Lawn Tennis
Hanlan...............Oarsman
Page..................High Jumper
Ross..................Swordsman
Taylor................Lawn Tennis


Thanks to all who have contributed to survey. Now, let's get the final six ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

I have (7) BB and (5) non-BB N162 cards. None have a TM.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks to a Net54 reader....we are left with only 4 subjects to be confirmed with the TM.

Confirmed list of N162 Subjects with TRADEMARK line.

UPDATED 8/27/08......46 cards

Acton..............Wrestler
Albert..............Pedestrian
Andrews...........Baseball
Anson..............Baseball
Beach..............Oarsman
Beecher............Football
Captain Bogardus....Marksman
Brouthers..........Baseball
Buffalo Bill Cody......Wild West Hunter
Carrison............Jockey
Caruthers..........Baseball
Daly.................Billiards
Dempsey...........Pugilist
D'Oro................Pool
Dunlap..............Baseball
Fitzgerald..........Pedestrian
Gandaur............Oarsman
Glasscock..........Baseball
Hanlan..............Oarsman
Keefe................Baseball
Kelly.................Baseball
Kilrain...............Pugilist
Mackenzie.........Chess
McLaughlin........Jockey
Mitchell.............Pugilist
Muldoon.............Wrestler
Murphy..............Jockey
Myers................Runner
Page.................High Jumper
Prince................Bicyclist
Rowe.................Bicyclist
Rowell................Pedestrian
Schaefer............Billiards
Sears................Lawn Tennis
Sexton..............Billiards
Slosson.............Billiards
Jem Smith..........Pugilist
Steinitz.............Chess
Stevens.............Bicyclist
Sullivan..............Pugilist
Vignaux..............Billiards
Teemer..............Oarsman
Voss..................Strongest Man
Chas. Wood........Bicyclist
Wood................Jockey
Zukertort...........Chess


The remaining four Subjects still needed to be confirmed are......

Beeckman...........Lawn Tennis
Dwight...............Lawn Tennis
Ross..................Swordsman
Taylor................Lawn Tennis


Thanks to all who have contributed to survey. Now, let's get the final 4 ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Beeckman (Lawn Tennis) has been confirmed.

Only 3 more to be confirmed......

Dwight...............Lawn Tennis
Ross..................Swordsman
Taylor................Lawn Tennis


TED Z