Hypothetical ethical issue. What would you do?

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

I go to a lot of tag sales -- it's a hobby and a way to make extra money to buy cards on occasion, and lately, with the cost of everything going up, just to pay bills.
In particular, I buy old books and records. Usually get them for a buck apiece and have had great luck finding some pretty valuable items on occasion. Occasionally, when I bring books home, I discover items tucked inside the pages: dried flowers; family photos, an old advertising card one time, etc. Always hoping to find a pre-war card with razor sharp corners that some kid tucked in a book in 1910. Has yet to happen, but I can dream.


My hypothetical is this. Suppose you were at a sale, looking at a bunch of old books that were marked $1 apiece, and as you were leafing through the pages of one, a pristine T206 Cobb, or Cy Young, or another Hall-of-Famer (let's not include Wagner), fell out of the book. Would you discreetly tuck it back into the pages and go pay your $1 for the book? Or would you alert the owner of the house that they have a card that is worth possibly tens of thousand of dollars? If it were only a $200-$300 card, would that make a difference? Just curious what people think.

Thanks. Rob

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Posted By: Sean

If they weren't smart enough to check the books before putting them for sale I say Take the deal and RUN!

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Posted By: peter ullman

Interesting question...but to me...this is no dilemna at all. I personally am a notorious tucker...I put ticket stubs, cards...papers...all kinds of stuff in books at times to protect them. If I ever go to sell a book...I always leaf through to see what I may find.

I would neatly tuck the card back in the book...maybe grab a few more books to use as bread and sandwhich the "good" book in the middle. I'd then gladly hand over $5 for the "books."

This is similar to the book..."Honus and me."

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's certainly a nice gesture to tell the owners about it, but I don't believe you are ethically obligated. What if you found the card after you brought the book home? Would you drive back and return it? It's really more about how you feel.

And I remember the great Wall Street book you picked up. Now that was a find!

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Posted By: Matt

In the "bulldog" school of law, wouldn't the sale not be binding in this case since the seller didn't know what he was selling?

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

Thanks, Barry. Yeah, those finds don't come along too often.

It somehow just feels different to me if you discover it while you're sitting in the person's house. If I found it at home and had no knowledge when I bought it that the card was in the book, I certainly wouldn't drive back to the house and let them know.
I'm not sure I can articulate why it feels different to me, but it does.

If I found it at the house, I'm thinking I'd probably do the "sandwich" thing and buy the book and all its contents. But I guess I'd feel a little guilty about it.

Is there anyone who flat-out think it's wrong?

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Posted By: Alan

Always carry a few top loaders with you

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Posted By: barrysloate

Rob- look at it another way:

What is the difference between finding a book for a dollar and selling it for $1500 (), or buying a book for a dollar and finding a $1500 card between the pages?

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Posted By: Shawn

I would pocket the card, put the book back on the table and check all the other books hoping to complete the entire t206 set plus error cards.

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Posted By: Jason L

But I'm afriad that just about anyone we know would put it back and buy the book.
Think of it as a lucky insert card pull!

To be brutally honest, we've all heard of "buyer beware."
Well, guess what? The fact that that phrase even exists means that there is a flipside altruism, which is "Seller Beware!"
I'm afraid you can't have one without the other...


Heck, what if the guy KNEW the card was in there, and he slipped it in there on purpose because it's his brother's card and he's trying to get back at him for taking his girlfriend? Yeah, yeah, and you can't say anything out loud because the guy is running the table at the market WITH his brother who is standing only a few feet away! Yeah, that's the ticket! That's what I would tell myself, anyway. Don't wanna come between brothers...

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

Hmm. I guess that's a good way of looking at it, Barry. btw, it was $6500. ($5200 after the auction company took its cut.)


I guess there is a slight difference. The seller knew he owned the book but failed to do any research on it and chose to sell it for $1. If he's dumb enough to do that (and thank God people are), it's his fault. But he didn't know he had the card. If he saw it, he most certainly would have looked into whether it was valuable. People are often naive about how much books can be worth. But most people know old baseball cards can have significant value. Though usually they tend to overvalue cards they own.

I'm probably leaning toward what Peter said. If they didn't take the time to go through and make sure there wasn't something in the book, too bad for them. Now if I can only find that Cobb . . .

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Posted By: andy becker

karma is karma.
i'm not adverse to making a few bucks here and there......but, at the very least, i would buy a few hundred dollars worth of books. resell the books or throw them in the trash. i would not walk out spending $1......but i'm not sure i'd mention the card either.
there's no right answer, but i think the circumstances would affect my decision. ie; is the value of the card considered a huge amount of money to the book seller? is the seller selling the books to make room for an addition to his/her house, or are they selling the books to pay for their next meal?

and rob, i understand.....sitting in someone's house is very different from finding something after the fact.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Rob- wow, I forgot it was $6500. That is amazing.

What if you bought a book for a dollar, took it home and forgot about it, and then a couple of months later you leafed through it and found a Wagner? I think it would be your lucky day.

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Posted By: Darren

Y'all just gave me an idea.

When I'm older and have Alzheimer's I'll put my card collection in my book collection and when I leaf through one of by book's VOILA! a great find!

I'll have written instructions to my caretakers to kindly put any card I find in my books back into the books.

A couple of hours later BAM! another great find! Life will be goood.

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Posted By: Eric B

Now what if the book is overpriced at say $100. But there is a minty Cy Young T206. So you buy the book. But under closer examination when you get home, you find out it's a reprint. Do you try to get a refund?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Does this theoretical seller post a sign saying 'Absolutely No Returns and No Refunds. All Sales are Final.'?

If the books purchase was a few bucks and card is very expensive, I think it should be returned.

If you spend $80 on a pile of old books and there are a couple of low grade Play Ball commons once used as bookmarks, I don't think it's a big deal-- in part as its likely the seller profited from the transaction.

If this theoretical seller never cleans out his old books, what does he expect from his customers? For them to throw out the Mars wrappers and return the diamonds? Perhaps the customer should send him a bill for maid service.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

If you are going to put stuff out for sale at a tag or garage sale, I can assume that you have gone over it and are happy to get your price.

Something like that did happen to me once. I bought a small lot of Academy Awards-related publications from an estate sale and when I went through the packet at home, two pristine tickets from the 1972 show fell out of one of the booklets. Never gave returning them a second thought.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Max Weder

Put yourself in the shoes of the vendor.

What if you put an expensive card mistakenly in a box of crappy commons for sale for $1? I suspect most would scream murder and demand the card back once they discovered their mistake.

In much smaller tems, this did happen to me as purchaser once. I was going to buy a $10 book. The gift inscription read basically something like: "Here's the book, young Johnny. I hope you enjoy, as there's something special for you inside". Little Johnny never bothered to crack open the book before dumping it, as inserted inside was a crisp $5 bill. I pointed this out to the seller when I was buying the book. He laughed so hard that he missed it that he let me keep the $5.

Max

edited for brain cramp

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Posted By: J Levine

So, about 20 years ago when I was a teenager and just getting back into cards I was in a book shop in Old Town Pasadena. I love old book stores and often picked up old copies of '50s Sci-fi books, classics, etc. at .25 or .50 cents. I was leafing through an old book and out slides a '55 Bowman Mays. GREAT condition and was probably used as a marker by a kid and not seen since it slid out. I call my brother over and we have a quick chat and decide to tell the store owner. I explain how the card fell out and how much it was worth and I would be willing to pay for it. The store owner tells me promptly to pay him the 50 cents and take the book and card. I remember his exact words still, "Hell, if it was in the book, it stays in the book!"

Joshua

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

The best used book store in my hometown must have had its share of such situations over the years. For the past dozen years or more, they have been flipping through every book that comes their way. They offer their "between-the-pages discoveries" for ten cents a toss. Once in a while you can find some interesting, slightly valuable ephemera in the bin, but alas, no baseball cards!