How does PSA grade hand cut cards?

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

I've got some beautiful 1955 Johnston Cookie cards and was wondering how PSA grades hand cut cards. Is there a size requirement? Strip cards, Bazooka, Jello, Post, etc are all hand cut and b4 I send these in I'd like an opinion, especially on the 55 Johnston's. Also, would you send hand cut cards to SGC or PSA?

Thanks,

Paul

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

My understanding is that as a general matter they will give them a numerical grade if the cut is outside the border and an authentic grade if the cut is inside the border, so in effect there is a minimum size requirement.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I have sent in a number of Post and Nabisco cut cards and as was mentioned above the cut is very important. The complete outline must be complete, if cut inside only a little expect an auth. If you have the complete border then they grade just like any other card with corners, gloss, etc making up the grade.

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Posted By: Steve

A crap shoot.
My fav example... Sent to PSA, rec'd Authentic. Cracked, sent to SGC rec'd a 50. Resub back to PSA crossover service for the 4. Keep a bit of border outside the dotted line to be safe.

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Well the Johnston's from 1955 were issued in a panels of 6 cards. I honestly don't remember a border. I bought these a few weeks back and they're pure white and the cuts look really good. I just don't want to send them in and get a bunch of 4's and 5's because of some grader not knowing that there isn't a so called border. Anyway, anyone ever send in 55 Johnston's?

Thanks~!

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Posted By: leon

I completely agree with PSA on this matter. I have said it many times, and still firmly believe, any card that was meant to be cut after mfg should get a "Hand-cut" qualifier.....A numerical grade is fine but without the qualifier I think it makes no sense....just my opinion.....btw, I think the PSA 8 Wagner should have the same qualifier... ....

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Posted By: Joe D.

that is a cool gehrig card.

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Posted By: Neal

Recent pick up!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Does it matter when the card was cut? If you found a Post cereal card with ragged but oversized borders, could you cut it down today and still receive a high grade?

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Posted By: leon

That is my whole point.....Who knows when they were cut? Could have been 80 years ago or yesterday. My preference would be to give all handcut cards an AUT only designation....BUT, if they must put a numerical grade then at least put "handcut" also......regards

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

The black border around the post cereal cards and the Bazooka cards must be there in order to get a high grade. The Johnston cookie cards have no black border. I just sent an email to PSA asking exactly what do they look for when grading the 55 HAND CUT Johnston cookie cards. Do you guys think I'll even get an answer? I'm a PSA authorized dealer but I don't think that will help. Anyone have a direct email for Joe?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- apparently you can tell if the cut is old or new because even the edges of cards will tone over time. I just wondered if the graders factored that in.

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Posted By: Paul

Now this one would be a 5 or 6 but the others are alot nicer...

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Posted By: Phil Garry

That's a great point, Barry, and it goes a long way towards determining the time period that the card was cut.

I think SGC handles them best by requiring that the card meets the minimum size requirements as outlined in the Standard Catalogue of Baseball Cards and, if it does, they simply grade the card based on overall presentation the same way as they would grade any other card. It is up to the collector to know what issues are hand-cut and I don't believe it is necessary to include that information on the grading label.

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Posted By: Cobby33

They grade them as "Auth" because they don't know what they're doing.

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Since that issue was issued in the booklet form, what we would be looking for is factory cut top and bottom edges and visible dashed lines on the right and left edges. If a card was at the end of a panel, one "dotted" edge would be OK. If the cards meet these criteria they would be eligible for a numerical grade. If not, they would only be eligible for the "Authentic" label.

This is from SGC...

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Posted By: Dave Williams

I guess I don't see why it matters when it was cut.

If the cards were designed to be cut from a box or strip, it shouldn't matter.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I suspect there is some inconsistency with how the graders handle hand cut cards.

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Posted By: leon

The timing of the cut matters if the card in question was "authentically" cut 80-100 yrs ago as opposed to being cut from a strip last week in order to get a high grade and sell for a premium. Most folks would want a vintage cut as opposed to me taking a strip of cards and cutting it to send in for high grades....I have never heard anything to make me change my mind on this issue.....but everyone has their own opinion....regards

PS- Barry- rub your finger over a new cut and you now have a vintage cut....that is why I don't like any strip card without the caveat of "hand cut"....

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree- a think a strip card should only qualify for an "Auth" grade. Same with cards cut from boxes, like W555. And there are many others.

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Posted By: Rob

so, if a card was issued in 1920, would it be an "old" cut if it was cut in 1922? what if it was cut in 1930, is it still considered an "old" cut then? 1950? Where is the cutoff point between an "old" cut and "new" cut?

Rob

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Posted By: David R

Does anyone think this Koufax would grade or is the top cut exceed the edge too much?

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Posted By: Fred C

This subject is probably one that irritates me more than just about anything in this hobby. I don't understand how hand cut cards can be given anything but an AUT designation. The cards can be cut at ANY time which means that any card with generous borders can be trimmed down and thus have razor sharp edges and corners which lead to higher grades. What would happen if a regular issue card had generous borders and someone trimmed them down? People would be outraged. Something else along the same lines is the removal of a COUPON or premium from the card means the card has been ALTERED. How the heck can any grading company provide it with a numerical grade? The card would have gone through a radical change from it's original distributed state. If the grading companies had any common sense they'd STOP just providing numerical grades to hand cut cards. The hobby would just have to deal with the exisiting cards and accept them for what they are - hand cut cards. The value would lie in the aesthetic appeal of the card. If the card was niecely trimmed then let the buyer/seller figure out a price on the card. Lets say a POST cereal card had a 1/4" border that was a little ragged (graded a 4) and put it up against the same card with a 1/8" border (graded a 7). Someone could trim down the extra 1/8" and have a card that is just as nice.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

"What would happen if a regular issue card had generous borders and someone trimmed them down?"

Hmmmm.... maybe it would sell for over $2 million?

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Hey Pete, You're talking about my Aaron correct?

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Posted By: steve

OK. PSA does infact currently hand out PSA 9 & 10 grades to 1960's Bazooka singles. Right or wrong its the way the game is played. Some see it as a dirty deed, others see it as an opportunity. Oh, well.

Question: Someone here must have tried to trim a bazooka panel for a nice HOF star card, submitted to PSA, and got results of _______________ ?

Anyone brave enough (and generous enough) to give the results information?

Steve.

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Posted By: Bob

Don't EVEN get me started on the 1909 Obak frameless cards. A very sore subject...
As far as cuts in general, I was told by one grading company (can't remember if it were SGC or PSA) that they COULD tell if the cuts were "old" or "new." Amazing...

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I have cut a number of bazooka boxes for my PSA clemente master set. I have gotten anywhere from a PSA 4 to a 9 on the panels. The 4 looked mint but had a tiny paper crease on the front (back was perfect), I have gotten a 7 because the card was a little faded from sun or light I think and the 9's were pretty much perfect. I am holding onto a 1966 bazooka box with clemente that looks mint but has a seam running across it where the back bend in the box kinda pushed the front out. I have no plans to cut it as I dont think it will get above a 4.

The 1962 Post clemente I posted I cut from a back panel I purchased on ebay a couple years ago.