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#1
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Mark
I started reading this book today, and have worked my way through the first three chapters. I don't want to pass judgment on it just yet, but I have already found several errors that will really irritate vintage card collectors. At one point, they mention that three players in the T206 set were in the first class of the Hall of Fame - Wagner, Cobb and Johnson. Matty was left out. However, later on, they made it up to Matty by including him in the T204 set! Not only that, there are also, apparently, in existence T204 cards of Cobb, Young and Lajoie. What a scoop! You Ramly collectors have four more cards to find than you thought. |
#2
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: JimB
What I want to know is: Are there before and after photos as was promised? We have already seen a great assembly of rumors and heresay here, but no actual evidence. |
#3
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Mark
There are no photos. There is a discussion of the photos. Apparently, there are the orignals, and there are three people - he identified them - who have photocopies of the photos. None of them, according to the authors, are willing to release the photos. Various reasons are given. |
#4
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Wesley
I am interested in reading what possible reason the owners of the before and after photos of the T206 Wagner have for not sharing them. If there are no before and after photos, then I am interested in seeing how this book is any different than the rumors that have been floating around in this hobby for years. Sounds like just more "I heard from a friend who I know is reliable that the card is trimmed." |
#5
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Let us know. |
#6
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Mark
Sorry - my mistake. I meant to write that he identifies one of them. That would be Brian and Michael Wentz. They suggest the photocopies are inconclusive. A second person is described as a prominent collector of T206 cards, who hints that the photocopies may be doctored. The third is a dealer, who says he doesn't want to harm the hobby in general by bringing into question the top card. The question of whether or not Alan Ray still has the original photos isn't addressed. |
#7
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: D. C. Markel
"My favorite part, so far, is when they refer to Alan Rosen as the hobby's first celebrity. Whatever." |
#8
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: JimB
Sounds like the same rumors and innuendo. Nobody is willing to go on the record. |
#9
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Mark
Apparently, Alan Ray's father bought an uncut sheet of T206 cards at a flea market for a very low price, and gave it to Ray to sell. The number of cards on the sheet is not discussed, but it did, according to Ray, also include a Plank. Alan Ray took the sheet to a card shop owned, I believe, by a dealer named Bob Sevchuk. It was there that the sheet was cut. I don't know if all the cards were individually cut at that time, but at least the Wagner and Plank were, and not really to exact size. |
#10
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: peter chao
Mark, |
#11
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Anyone still think O'Keeffe can be unbiased when writing about Mastro? |
#12
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: D. C. Markel
Mark, |
#13
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: D. C. Markel
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#14
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: boxingcardman
That way he can subpoena Ray and everyone else and get the documents into the public record. |
#15
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: rand
2 points of extreme interest here...the card was unknown for 70+ years, the timing of PSA emerging and it grading this card. I wonder if the card was submitted to SGC or a panel of experts if it would pass. Does the Halper Collection Wagner still reside in the HOF? if so , what condition is it in? |
#16
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Mark Evans
I look forward to reading the book. One point, though, doesn't make much sense to me. Apparently, the folks interviewed for the book seem to make some issue of the allegation that the card, once cut from a sheet, was subsequently altered/trimmed and that "before and after" photos might or might not exist. Assuming the card was in fact hand-cut from a sheet, and regardless what one might think of that in terms of affecting its authenticity or value, the fact that it may have been subsequently re-cut (to straighten edges and/or meet appropriate T-206 dimensions) strikes me as pretty irrelevant. Mark |
#17
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: peter chao
Mark, |
#18
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: Wesley
Has the new owner of the T206 Wagner come forward yet? He might be interested in what this book has to say, having paid $2.35 million for the card. |
#19
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The Card: Collectors, Con Men, ERRORS, etc.
Posted By: ScottIngold
I doubt he would care very much what the book say's |
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