Now that it has ended... (Photograph)

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Posted By: steve f

David and other photo buffs;

Any thoughts on the authenticity of this blue-tint 8x10?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shoeless-Joe-Jackson-Ty-Cobb-Wacter-Big-Train-Johnson_W0QQitemZ160035439560QQihZ006QQcategoryZ50 129QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Can't authenticate without seeing it in person, but there was a cyanotype
photographic process that existed during that era that produced blue and white,
instead of black and white images. I've seen a few cyanotype baseball real photo
postcards from the era, and I know Scott Forrest owns a cyanotype baseball cabinet
card.

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Robert Wood, the son of Smoky Joe Wood, had a bunch of copies made from the original one that he once owned.

I happen to have a copy that looks identical to the one on ebay. The original was much larger.

Patrick

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with Patrick- doesn't look right, and Bob Wood was always hawking his dad's image in one form or another. Probably a reprint. And considering an original is worth well into five figures and this sold for $300, I think the market agreed with that assessment.

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Posted By: steve f

I was highly suspicious the entire week. This seller doesn't accept Paypal. After some digging, found out this seller is tax delinquent($90K), in another State. (The tax lady asked me to tell the guy to, 'pay his darn bill').

Of course, there is no way of checking backgrounds 'til you've made the purchase.

Too many gigantic red flags here. I appreciate the guidance gents and will insist on a buyer protection form of payment.


For David; Would you be willing to accept this and any other old photos for opinions?.. For a fee of course. (GAI once charged $80. and took many weeks.)

I'm one EDITing fool this AM.

I called the seller (number worked!) and told him that I will be paying through Visa.

Called the HOF this AM. They have the same photo (It was a benefit game for Addie), and the photo dept staff wants to see a scan. They would be 'able to tell if it's fake'(uh huh). Also will send a scan of their example. I was surprised by their courtesy.

Steve F

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Posted By: Joe D.

HOF Photo Department is a pleasure to deal with. Very nice people there.

If it is a fake... I'm glad I didn't see that auction... because I would have been tempted to join the bidding. Doesn't eBay have some sort of protection against this? The listing calls it an original photo... not a print or a copy.

If it is real... congrats - nice photo.

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Posted By: Rhys

I have owned hundreds of Cyanotype photos over the years, some sports and some not. I am not an expert but I would have to venture that by the 1910's they were absolutely on their way out the door. All the ones I have seen and still own are from about 1900-1907 or so and they were popular during that period. I highly doubt that a famous photographer like Van Oeyen would make several prints of this photo into Cyanotypes approximately 5-7 years after they were no longer a popular medium. Not only that, but I have probably seen at least 100-200 Van Oeyen originals over the years and NEVER seen him use a Cyanotype medium for a single photo before.

Not a definitive answer, but all signs point to fake!

Rhys

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Posted By: fkw

Its a famous photo and well known because Cobb lost his Detroit uniform and is wearing a Cleveland uniform. If I remember right it was a game played for an Addie Joss memorial. Im not positive, as my memory is from when I was about 10 years old.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You are correct. That was taken at the Addie Joss memorial game.

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Posted By: martindl

Steve,
Did the seller tell you it was a blue tint/cyanotype photograph?

The larger images appear blue in the scan but the frame also has a blue tint. The smaller image showing the copyright is probably closer to the images' real color i.e. while Rhys comments about Van Oeyen and cyanotypes is right, I don't think its a cyanotype.

Is the copyright embossed or part of the image?

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Posted By: steve f

Martin, I assumed it was blue. This seller is elusive. Now that you mention it, it is black. Reckon I didn't pick up on that.

Finally found one -Lelands. This one is B/W... But it's cropped within the border differently. Highly noticable around the VanOeyen label and the catchers' left leg.

Thankyou for the headsup.

Now I'm even more daff'd. The Lelands $1,200. 8x10 shows less actual photograph than the possible reprint. I'll be busy for a few hours figger'n this out.


http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=337&auctionid=505

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Posted By: steve f

As advised by the board. This item, as is the seller, a fraud. Very thin stock, dot print with laser residue pattern, flat photog stamp, no gloss and failed the UV test... Paid by check gulp. Wish me luck.

Special thanks to David, Barry and others. I appreciate the time and energy.

*It is black and white. Not Cyan as I initially believed.

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Posted By: Sean

This might help from eBay if he doesn't refund your money -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/esppp-process.html

Sean BH

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

I am aware of two originals of this photo. One was sold last year by Hunt Auctions for $51,750. The other one was sold (also by Hunt) eight years ago for $25,300. If this seller had an original, as he/she said, putting aside the wisdom of selling it on eBay as opposed to one of the major auction houses, the chances of him/her really being so stupid as to let it go for a few hundred dollars is probably about one in a million. Perhaps the greatest red flag that something is a fake is when a seller is willing to sell it for a minute fraction of its true worth, in this case less than 1%.