The SCDA trip

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Posted By: jay behrens

Dan Baretta, Lee and I just got back from the dog and Pony show. The Lipezaners were fabulous as usual, but the English Sheep Hounds shed all over the place.

Seriously, this was a very informative and worthwhile trip. The presentation, if you want to call it that, started with Dave Bushing giving a detailed walk thru on how the bat was authenticated and whole story behind it. This is a basic timeline of the trasaction:

Patricia Henrich, Tommy's daughter contacts Bushing about some bats she has found in the attic of her Mother's house.

Nothing special is noted about the DiMaggio bat. All bats are purchased and rbought to the Ft Washington show for a quick flip to buyer.

The buyer is told that the DiMaggio isn't right because of the ball markings all over the bat. The buyer demands a refund and Bushing gives it.

This leads to further research by Bushing to try and prove that the bat is an actually gamer.

Further research shows that it is one of 22 bats with these particular markings, inlcuding a shipment of bats that cover The Streak.

Henrich is interviewed about the bat and says that DiMaggio gave him the bat after the streak ended.

Henrich got married in August of 1941 and left this and the other bats at his mother's house.

If this is the case, the order from 7-1-41 is the first order of 6 bats with all the markings of this bat. The other 16 bats with these marking were ordered after August 1941.

An H&B exec (forget his name at the moment, left my notes at Lee's) claims he was independently by DiMaggio and Henrich that Henrich was given a Streak bat Joe.

I am forgetting some other details and will add them when I get my notes, so be sure to check back for more details.

If the original buyer of this bat had not backed out of the deal, this would be just another DiMaggio gamer. Because he had doubts and forced Bushing to do further research into the authenticity of the bat, it was discovered to be more than just gamer, but very possibly a Streak bat.

Would I give and A10 grade as they did? No. But the evidence is very strong that it is and all parties involved are more than willing back the item with a full money back refund of it is proven to be other than described in the LOA. SCDA has also said they are more than will to show anyone else that wans to see what see saw today at any show they set up at if you give them advanced notice so they can bring the appropriate material.

Bushing also touched on some other areas, such as the Seaver glove, which had an addendum addded to the auction description prior to the start of the auction. As to Ichiro bat, Bushing said this came from agent of Ichiro and apprently were mislead about the bat.

After the walk thru how they autheticated the bat other assorted topics, we went to lunch and then came back and got tour of the Mastro offices.

Jaw dropping is an understatement to describe the items that were there. Various items that were in plain view was PSA 8 33 Goudey Bengough, several high grade Plows Candy cards, a stunning pennant picturing Frank Chance with New York, a Ohio Buckeyes pennant and my personal favorite, an Allen & Ginter wall poster for the N2 Indian Chief sets. I am so envious that Kieth O'Leary already owns this item. It's simpley stunning. There was also a huge bobble head collection being catalogue along with a complete set of Hartland statues with boxes and tags.

This trip was very worthwhile and gave us some great insight as to what is involved in the authetication process for SCDA. I give them major props for being proactive about this situation and wanting to try and do what is best for everyone. Every dealer should be like this.

As mentioned before, once I get me notes back, I'll add more and I am sure Dan will fill in anything I left out.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

I'm probably not as attuned to this deal as I ought to be before I ask questions. So I'll apologize in advance for the dumb ones. However, one issue that sort of caught my eye, and which wasn't addressed by your preliminary report, is why the ball marks on the "streak bat" seem to be consistent with a lefty hitter who used the same model bat (i.e., Tommy Henrich)? Perhaps there is a completely kosher answer and you know it. What do the authentication gods have to opine about that?

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Posted By: jay behrens

They provided a number of photos that showed DiMaggio hitting with both the label up and the label down. So there is no one certain way that he always held his bat.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: dennis

i wonder how the guy who backed out of the first deal feels and what kind of provenance(or lack of) they gave him?? that part of the "story" is puzzling.

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Posted By: andy becker

hi jay
i'm sure this IS a dumb question....but....
how do scda and mastro end up in same tour???

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Posted By: david

here is another dumb question. shouldnt bushing have done his research before he sold the bat the second time instead of coming up with all this provenance after it was returned. if this was such a significant bat then he should have known that from the start, considering he is such a recognized authority

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Posted By: jay behrens

SCDA and Mastro were on the same the tour becuase MAstro was the one that sold the bat and were kind enough to agree to host this meeting.

As Bushing pointed out, the game used field is all about your comfort level with the item in question becuase no matter what the provonance of the item, you are making a leap of faith as to what the item is. When the bat originally came to light, it was was thru Henrich's daughter and she knew nothing of the history of the bat. She just knew they were bats from her father's playing days. I'm not a bat expert, but I know enough about bats that if she had offered me this bat, I would not have questioned wether it was a gamer or not. It had all the proper makings for a profesional model and I am sure this is what the original deal was based on.

I am sure the original buyer is kicking himself. But then again, he probably would have never done any further research into the bat and it would just be another DiMaggio gamer. So it was dumb luck and circumstance that brought to light the fact that this was a Streak bat.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

Jay, sounds like the trip served its purpose for SCDA.

Could you go back into your post and identify at which stage Bushing bought and sold (and then resold) the bat? It's hard to understand from your description just who is buying and selling the bat at various stages.

Also, did Bushing or anyone else at SCDA or Mastro speak to conflict of interest? Did Mastro, Bushing and SCDA confirm that would contnue to conceal conflict of interest? I noticed this topic was not covered in your post.


Also, did Mastro pay for your trip?

Thanks.

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Posted By: jay behrens

basic timeline of the bat:

DiMaggio gives the bat to Henrich
Henrich leaves bat at mother's house
Henrich's daughter finds bat and 5 others
She contacts Bushing, who buys the bats
Bushing sells DiMaggio bat
bat gets returned
more research done on bat
Tom Henrich is contacted to find out more about bat
bat is determined to be a Streak bat
bat is sold at MAstro auction to H&B

That's about as quick and dirty as it gets

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

How was he?

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Posted By: jay behrens

for 93, Henrich looked pretty good, but they said that video they showed was heavily edited because there were lots of long pauses with uhmmmms and errrrs. They said it also took 2 days to do because it took so much energy for him to do it. From the video you would have never guessed that, but at least they up front about it. They also mentioned that some of the best stuff lost becuase the cameraman didn't have the camera running.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

So, nothing on conflict of interest?

Did Bushing and SCDA and Mastro explain how they feel its okay for to self-authenticate items that they owns and then conceal this information from potential buyers/bidders?

I understand that this was a blatant PR-manipulation on their part (and judging by your post it certainly worked--gotta love those pennants), but it's disappointing all you have to post about is that you believe that the DiMaggio bat was a streak bat (shocking!!!).

There are more issues involved than that with Matsro, SCDA and Bushing.

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Posted By: Aaron

Jay, forgive m, but just for clarity, I wanted to add some detail to your timeline.

basic timeline of the bat:

DiMaggio gives the bat to Henrich
Henrich leaves bat at mother's house
Henrich's daughter finds bat and 5 others
She contacts Bushing, who buys the bats
Bushing sells DiMaggio bat
bat gets returned to Bushing
Bushing does more research [done] on bat
Bushing contacts Tom Henrich [is contacted] to find out more about bat
Bushing determines bat [is determined] to be a Streak bat
Bushing sells bat [is sold] at MAstro auction to H&B
Bushing's ownership of bat is concealed from buyer at Mastro auction until afterward

Is this correct?

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Posted By: PASJD

Who else was in attendance it would be interesting to hear their perspective. A "heavily edited" videotape sure sounds like a possible red flag to me.

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Posted By: jay behrens

To the conflict of interest issue. Industry standard was that it wasn't discloused in auction descriptions or on the LOA unless you asked. Not a great policy, but everyone did it, but becuase of this situation, changes have been made at SCDA so that autenticator ownership/finanacial interest is disclosed.

As of 2005, SCDA will always note whether the autheticator had a financial interest in the item. They cannot, however, force the auction houses to list in their description the fact that the authenticator has an interest in the item. So it is now in the hands of the auction houses as to what to do.

As to authenticators buying and selling items, I am more inclined to lean their way on this one. The main point being, would you trust an item coming from an acknowledge expert who is buying a selling and constantly handling these items, or somethone in the Field of Dreams store or HSN? As altruistic as we'd like to be, it's pretty much impossible to make a living authenticating only. In order to do that, authenticating prices would be thru the room and only the most significant pieces would ever get authenticated. Bushing and SCDA offer 100% money back gaurentees on their items, so what more can want? If you can prove them wrong, you'll get your money back.

The same can be said about card dealers. If you are looking for a rare card, are you going trust some no name seller on eBay or an established expert like Macrae, TIK, etc? Granted, they can't take a card and make it into something more important they it really is.

SCDA and Bushing say they stand behind their claims 100% on all items. If you can prove them wrong, they will gladly refund your money. You can't ask for much more than that.

As Bushing and SCDA repeatedly said, there is no 100% certianty with any item unless it comes directly from the player from that exact game situation. Beyond that, it's all about the buyer's comfort level with the item you are buying. There is always a leap of faith involved.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: jay behrens

According to SCDA, all interested/serious parties in the bat were aware the Bushing had an interest in the bat. It wasn't disclosed was in the auction description and from our meeting, I gather that auction houses won't be changing this practice any time soon.

As to the tape, If I remember correctly, DAve Bushing, Dan knoll and a cameraman were present. Dan knoll was also at this meeting. He said that it seemed to take a lot of mental energy to gather his thoughts, but once he started talking, was very lucid and seemed to remember in great detail events of the last game of the streak.

If you saw the video on the auction site, then you saw the same video we got to see.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

Jay, you know, I think you're right. I would probably trust PSA more if they were buying and selling cards they graded and authenticated.

And how can you blame SCDA for concealing conflict of interest if its' industry standard and everyone is doing it? (I suppose if its industry standard for auto mechanics to rip off their customers, this excuses it?)

Hilarious.

SCDA can't force the auction houses to disclose conflict of interests? Gee, I don't know, how about not providing authentication services to those that refuse?

BTW, since Mastro was there and "kind enough to host the visit", did you ask a Matsro representative why they refuse to disclose?

Whoo!

Jay, LOL at you. You play a perfect patsy. Thanks for confirming suspicions that this trip was a waste of time. Hopefully they bought you a nice lunch.

Let's leave this one to Adam to handle in the courts.

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Posted By: PASJD

Did you inquire how much Henrich or his family was paid for the bat? Did you inquire why Bushing had no clue it might be a streak bat the first time he bought and sold it but then decided it might be after he bought it back? (In other words, the leading expert just negligently left a fortune on the table the first time and lucked out because the first buyer was worried about the ball markings?) Did Henrich recall when, or why for that matter, Dimaggio gave him the bat? Were the other bats Henrich had also DiMaggio bats? By the way, just my opinion, but the convenient part about an executive of the buyer happening to recall being told by DiMaggio that he had given Henrich a streak bat (a fact apparently not documented anywhere else) seems a bit untrustworthy without more.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Aaron, I have one thing to say to you and anyone else that thinks the way you do...

You did not go this meeting. You had every oppurtunity to go. You did not have to go the same day that we went. They were prepared to fly 5 people out for this, even if it meant doing it on 5 different days. It also means that you probably wouldn't have gone to the MAstro offices since SCDA had to travel from Milwaukee to get there. It would have been easier for us to fly into Milwaukee to do it. There was no need to go to the Mastro offices.

You can believe anything you want, but until you have all the facts in front of you and saw what we saw, your opinion comes from a basis of ignorance.

I mentioned this is my original post, and I'll mention it again:

SCDA will gladly make this same presentation to anyone else that wants to see it, at any show they set up at. All you have to do is contact them ahead of time so they can bring the material with them.

I'm one of the biggest synics in the world, but I am not so set in my ways that I will refuse to admit when I am wrong or unwilling to change the way I think about something. Am 100% comfortable with everything I saw what is going on? Hell no! But SCDA is trying to make postive changes. This board is single handedly responsible for them changing the format of the LOAs.

This situation will change overnight, but it is slowly moving in the right direction.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: PASJD

Jay, having seen what you saw, what doubts do you continue to have and why?

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Posted By: Aaron

"You did not go this meeting. You had every opportunity to go. You did not have to go the same day that we went. They were prepared to fly 5 people out for this, even if it meant doing it on 5 different days. It also means that you probably wouldn't have gone to the MAstro offices since SCDA had to travel from Milwaukee to get there. It would have been easier for us to fly into Milwaukee to do it. There was no need to go to the Mastro offices."

I didn't have the opportunity to go, Jay. I have to work and can't ask for time off so I can go to Milwaukee for a PR demonstration.

I will however, be in Chicago for the National and would be happy to meet with any SCDA and/or Mastro representative while I'm there. In fact, I'd love to get a tour of Bill Matsro's home collection. can you swing it?

"You can believe anything you want, but until you have all the facts in front of you and saw what we saw, your opinion comes from a basis of ignorance."

Well, then I guess that puts us on an even playing field.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The original group of bats was bought for $45,000. There was only one DiMaggio bat in the group.

The reason Bushing had no idea the bat was a Streak bat is becuase Henrich daughter had no clue. All she knew was that she had a bunch of bats from her father's playing days.

Bushing did not decide that after teh initial sale fell thru that this was a Streak bat. He didn't come to this conclusion until after he started doing more reseach on the bat. Prior to the inital sale, he had no reason to believe that the bat wasn't gamer, and I know enough about bats that even with my limited knowledge, I would have been comfortable with that. He could have jsut as easily tried to flip the bat to someone else, but becuase doubts were raised about the bat, did more research on it. Bushing readily admits that this a dumb luck case. He said he was just looking to flip the bats quick and no would be the wiser if that inital deal had not fallen thru.

Dan can probably answer this better than I can but if I remember right, he was given the bat shortyl after the streak ended.

The H&B exeec is a former exec from years back, not a current exec. This might be another spot where Dan knows more details than I do.

A lot of my inital post is just quick and dirty without a lot of details, so don't questions like these don't really bother me.

Jay



I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: PASJD

I still don't understand why, if the original question was just ball markings and the easy answer was that DiMaggio batted with the label up and down (which presumably Bushing should have known anyway), Bushing decided to do further "research" after the first return. I am not in any position to question his veracity, it just sounds like a strange explanation to me.

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Posted By: Jim

"The reason Bushing had no idea the bat was a Streak bat is becuase Henrich daughter had no clue. All she knew was that she had a bunch of bats from her father's playing days."

Why would the hobby's "foremost expert" on game used bats have to rely on Henrich's memory to tell him what the bat was? Not to mention the fact that Bushing holds all the H&B shipping records. Only a fool would believe that no research was done until the bat was called into question. You can't tell me that he didn't check the records closely the minute he bought the bat.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I can't speak to what Bushing did when he initally got the bat, but I don't doubt he probably checked all marking against his database and saw they were good. If he did that, he had no real reason to check further than that. He had provanace and the proper markings for a DiMaggio gamer. He wasn't loking to "create" anything. He just wanted to the flip the bats quick so he could get his $45k back. Sloppy. Yes, but it turned into a good thing in the long run.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: david

so your 30 minute public relations presentation makes you an expert on the bat now. while the rest of us remain ingorant to the facts that somehow the bat turned into a streak bat after it was returned. if bushing was such and expert he would have done his research BEFORE selling the bat the first time, not after it was returned for questions relating to the authenticity. there is zero evidence this is an actual streak bat beyond that of the memory of a 93 year old man who may or may not be lucid. no matter how many pictures they show of dimaggio with the label down. let me see a single picture of this actual bat being used during the streak. are any of the pictures of dimaggio with the label down from the streak or are they from 36 or 51

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Posted By: PASJD

So why did he have any reason to check further when the bat got returned because the buyer was misinformed about ball markings? It still isn't adding up in my mind. Again, I am not saying I doubt Bushing because I haven't met him and can't assess his credibility first hand, but this explanation does not add up to me. Indeed, now that I think about it, he should have been able to tell the first time what time period the bat was from (based on the H and B records) and THAT ALONE should have prompted "further research" into whether it was a streak bat and thus possibly worth hundreds of thousands more, no? What am I missing here?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Here are some of the facts as presented to us by Robert Plancich:

-DiMaggio never batted label down.
He is wrong. Not only were we shown game action pictures provided by the HoF, but we also got to handle other game used DiMaggio bats that showed use on all parts of the bat.
-He stated the video asks leading questions.
He is wrong. Unless we saw a different video than he did.


There were also things that I had misconceptions about. I'm not sure if Plancich said the Ichiro bat was given an A-10 or not, but that bat was put up for auction before SCDA even had that system in place. This really seemed like a sore subject to Bushing. He stated that they got screwed by Ichiro's agent on that one. Which goes to show that you really can't trust anyone's word on something like that. Which leads to the leap of faith in the game-used collectible field.

Leap of faith - are we to take Tommy Henrich at his word??? After having read his book "Five O'Clock Lightning" and done other research on him I could find nothing anywhere that would question his integrity or character. There are too many things going for this bat that I think Henrich is telling the truth. PBOR records for DiMaggio prove that this bat was ordered for only 1941 - 1942. The PBOR's also show that Henrich ordered the same type of bat, but they would have had Henrich's name on them and not DiMaggio's. Henrich stated himself that DiMaggio gave the bat to him because he loaned him his bat when DiMaggio's was stolen between games 41 and 42. It should be noted that in other research I did it showed that DiMaggio did realize the historical importance of such items associated with the streak as he did give away his spikes he used during the streak to the sister of the good fella who found his missing bat. Would Joe have given these items away if they had the tremendous value of todays market??? Doubtful, but in 1941 items like that had very little monetary value.

Would I have given this bat an A-10? I don't think so, but I would not hesitate to call it A-9. IMO A-10 should never be given on someones word, even if that word corroborates all the evidence. I'm not sure A-10 exists outside of the bat being handed directly to someone from SCDA at the ballpark right after the player used it. But that's my opinion on rock solid provenance.

I can see already that someone is questioning our integrity. All I can say to that is that you were not there. If a "dog and pony show" is being shown player batting order records, game used bats, and testimony from the former player himself then yes I guess we got swayed by the "dog and pony show". Anyone is welcome to see the same "dog and pony show" we saw at the National.

I'm not going to go into detail about what they said about Robert Plancich and his lawsuit with H&B, but if what they say is true then he has some explaining to do, and I imagine that it will be explained in court. That doesn't mean that what they said is true, but I will be following this case closely. I've heard both sides now and Robert Plancich made some clearly false statements regarding this bat.

With the physical evidence supporting this bat and with Tommy Henrich's word on it I choose to believe this bat is the real deal. If you want to impugn my integrity by saying I was swayed by the pretty lights all I have to say is you don't know me. I am a member of SABR and I take baseball research very seriously. I have formed an educated opinion the onus is now on you to do your own research if you disagree with me.

Dan

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Posted By: Anonymous

You don't give Bushing enough credit on this. When he checked the markings on the bat to make sure it was good, he would have seen when this particular type of bat might have been shipped to DiMaggio. If it was anywhere near 1941, you cannot tell me he wouldn't have done additional homework. This guy has been quoted as saying he pays the IRS six figures every year - flipping something to recoup $45,000 is not how he operates. These guys "create" stuff all the time - cases in point, the mid-1960's Mantle glove Billy Crystal bought as a '61, the mid-1970's Seaver glove billed as a '69, and so on.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Bushing wasn't sloppy about his research he knew from the pbor's that this bat was "possibly" used during the streak the first moment he got it. He tried to sell it for $90,000 as a "possible streak bat". When someone told the buyer that DiMaggio only batted label up Bushing took the bat back and called Henrich's daughter to ask if this bat was used by Henrich. She put him in contact with her father and that's when he said it was a streak bat that was given to him by DiMaggio.

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Posted By: PASJD

If he thought it was a "possible" streak bat from the start why would he not have followed up then to see if he was sitting on a gold mine or not?

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Posted By: Aaron

"So why did he have any reason to check further when the bat got returned because the buyer was informed about ball markings?"

Pure speculation on my part, but I would imagine having just had the bat returned and his judgment questioned, Bushing was highly-motivated to try and sell the bat again (so he wouldn't take a loss on his purchase).

So Bushing needs to work extra-hard to try and prove the bat is real so he can make money off it and also have an explanation as to why he was trying to sell a bat that had already been returned once as not a gamer (in case anybody found that out).

BTW, a very valid point is raised. Shouldn't the original purchaser have a legal claim against Bushing for failing to properly authenticate the bat in the first place, thus costing him potential profits from selling the bat?

I actually feel bad for Henrich's daughter. How badly was she ripped off by Bushing?

Hey, Jay, did Bushing reveal how much he initially paid for the bat? How much did it ultimately sell for again?

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Posted By: Anonymous

Because they had already sold another bat just like it a few years ago and he knew the value of what he already had. He paid 45,000 for it and sold it immediately for $90,000. I doubt he knew it would go for $350,000 at auction. Did anyone know it would go that high?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Aaron, they have a letter from the Henrich family stating that they are happy with the deal. The deal with the Henrich family was reworked after that bat was re-sold last April to H&B. Of course you could have gone to Chicago yourself to find out all of that and you can still arrange to meet with them at the National. You've already impugned Jay's integrity on this matter without seeing all of the facts for yourself so I challenge you to set up this meeting with SCDA. If you choose not to then that says a lot about you.

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Posted By: Aaron

"...but we also got to handle other game used DiMaggio bats that showed use on all parts of the bat."

This is so cool, Dan. I don't know why anybody would question your favorable reaction to Mastro and SCDA after this kind of treatment.

When I visit with them at the National, my wish list is to tour the Mastro facility and see all of their cool summer offerings (I would assume I'll be allowed to handle whatever I want). I'd also like to visit Bill Mastro's home and see his personal collection. As I've noted before, seeing his collection on TV is what motivated me to get back into the hobby, so this would be a big thrill for me (hint, hint).

BTW, what should I expect by way of food? Did they give you a stipend or provide a buffet? If it's a buffet, then I'd like some input on what they serve (I hate fish).

Also, did they put you up at a hotel? How about airfare? My wife is advising me to schedule my trip to Mastro and SCDA during the National so they can pick up the tab for airfare and hotel.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The original group of bats was purchased for $45k. Bushing said they figured $30-35k of it for the DiMaggio bat. After the bat was returned and then later verified to be a Streak bat, Bushing says that the proceedes beyond $100k (I think this is right) were split 50/50. Dan can correct me on this, if I am wrong. But the Henrich family ended up with more than $45k for the bats.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Dan and Jay:

I do not think that anyone questions your integrity.

However, it is reasonable to question your assessment, in part because much of the authentication certainty rests on statements of an individual who exhibits "lots of long pauses with uhmmmms and errrrs" in his speach pattern. One can easily wonder how much he was led into the statements which were shown on a tape which was edited, reportedly, to enhance continuity.

This attribution reeks of dishonesty, in my inexperienced opinion. But I wasn't there.

What can you offer to substantiate the validity of Henrich's statements?

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Posted By: jay behrens

The pre-auction estimate they said they had for the bat was $150k.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Aaron, the offer for an all expense paid trip has long expired. I also doubt you are going to be able to get a tour of the MAstro offices. It took a great leap of faith on their part jsut to let us in there and show us around. The Mastro offices are not set up for tours. Thy barely have enough room to get around in there the way it is.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

"Aaron, they have a letter from the Henrich family stating that they are happy with the deal. The deal with the Henrich family was reworked after that bat was re-sold last April to H&B."

Dan, that sure was nice of them. How much did she end up getting all-told?

"Of course you could have gone to Chicago yourself to find out all of that and you can still arrange to meet with them at the National."

No way, man. I have a yob and a life, unfortunately. But, yes, I will see them in Chicago (I'm planning details in a previous post). Which travel agent should I book through?

"You've already impugned Jay's integrity on this matter without seeing all of the facts for yourself so I challenge you to set up this meeting with SCDA. If you choose not to then that says a lot about you."

Hey, I'm telling you, I'm there. No way am I going to miss out on a chance to check out all sorts of cool memorabilia and get some free food. The real question is if they will pay my travel expenses like they did you.

SCDA and Mastro, please contact me to set up my visit. (I'll be in Chicago on the Thursday and Friday of the National, but I'm going to a Cubs game on Friday. Hey, can you guys spring for the tickets, as part of my tour/demonstration?) I'm serious. I want in. Please be advised, I'm more of a Gehrig fan, so if you have any of his bats, I'd like to handle them instead of DiMaggio.

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Posted By: Aaron

"Aaron, the offer for an all expense paid trip has long expired. I also doubt you are going to be able to get a tour of the MAstro offices."

Yeah, I guess their motivation is gone now that you and Dan have done your jobs for them.

So no airfare and no hotel. My wife is going to be disappointed. No buffet either? That's just plain rotten.

If I don't get to see the Mastro offices, then what's the point? I want to see cool stuff, or my tour is pointless.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Gilbert, we are talking about a 93 year old man, not a someone in their 30s or 40s. When I go talk to my grandma it involves a lot pauses, uhmms and errs. It's perfectly normal for someone that age. And considering it got posted on the net, there is no way you could leave completely unedited and hope that people with slow connection could ever see the whole thing.

Was DiMaggio stingy. Everyone close to him says yes. But these same people also say that was also quite generous when called for.

As Dan said and I said, I wouldn't give the bat an A10, but then it's not my money and reputation on the line. If Bushing and SCDA are comfortable with A10 and backing it up 100%, then that is their call.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Josh A.

Sounds like an interesting trip.

Aaron, you can stay at my house, I live 20 minutes away from Rosemont, but I doubt we'll have any buffets!!

Jay, where did you stay while in Chicago?

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Posted By: jay behrens

It was strictly a day trip. We got in around 10am, was taken directly to the MAstro offices where we spent the day except for lunch which we ate at a sportbar in the same area. The flew out at 6pm.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

That arouses my suspicions immediately. Was Henrich so addled that he needed long pauses to get up the wind to answer questions? Or was he studying his lines, being coached, etc.? What really happened during those lapses? Add that to allegedly missing footage of really good comments and you have some very questionable evidence at the heart of the debate. We have a "colorful" history on the transaction populated with people attesting to facts who have six-figure financial incentives to puff up those facts, including a family exploiting a very old man for profit. Does that add up to an A10 item? Anyone ever heard the word "bias" before?

As far as Robert Plancich goes, my client is reserving his comments on the case until after the case is over. He's never said that the bat was not a DiMaggio bat but questioned the integrity and the candor of the financially interested authenticator who vouched for it as unquestionably an A10 streak bat given the facts that were disclosed and undisclosed. Had SCDA and the others answered the questions about the bat authentication process up front and acknowledged up front that the authenticator stood to profit from the sale, perhaps there would be no continuing public furor over it. Suffice it to say that if this matter progresses beyond the initial pleading stages all of the evidence in its unaltered form will come to light.

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Posted By: PASJD

Do we know if it still exists in its unedited form? If so, it would certainly be interesting to know what was "edited." Perhaps it was not significant, perhaps it was. Ask 60 Minutes about how important editing can be.

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Posted By: Aaron

Josh: Thanks, now I just need someone to spring for my flight (or offer use of their private jet) and the wife won't have any excuse to keep me from attending the National.

Dan and Lee: I want to make perfectly clear so that there's no misunderstanding that non-one is questioning your integrity.

Rather we are questioning your susceptibility to manipulation. Mastro/SCDA paid for all travel expenses to arrange a tour of their facilities where you were shown what they wanted you to see and nothing more. In the process you were allowed to examine some cool items and I'm sure were treated in a very friendly and personal manner.

When you come back to post on your visit, you sound like mouthpieces for SCDA/Mastro with nothing but praise while repeating their conclusions and defenses of their actions ("everybody did it", "industry standard", "new policy", "we can't force auction houses to disclose", etc.) including the financial need for authenticators to act as dealers as well (this despite the fact that Bushing apparently cleared $250K on the streak bat!) and dismissing the undisclosed conflict of interest issue as minor and now beyond their control. Seriously, would you then say Alan Hager wasn't doing anything wrong?

Basically people dismissed this demonstration as a PR stunt before the trip, and you've confirmed it.

Of course, I don't blame you. If I were a Disney collector and Disney gave me an all-expense paid trip and behind-the-scenes tour of Disney World, I'm sure it would effect my objectivity as well.

Anyway, at least you got to handle some cool bats. That alone was worth the trip.

Adam: Glad to hear you are helping Planich out. (I felt bad for the guy when the suit was first announced.) I have a feeling that this suit is going to majorly backfire in the faces of the auction/authentication industry once depositions start (and imagine if it actually goes to trial, woof). .

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Posted By: jay behrens

Aaron, until you get to know the 3 of us personally, you have no basis to pass judgement on us and how easily we can be swayed by anything. As I've said before, I am the most synical poerson in the world, always looking for hidden subtext meaning of anything. You ahven't seen the evidence presented to us. Until such time that you can meet with SCDA, you opinion is basically worthless.

If you have questions, I will answer them, but as long as you continue impune the integrity of the 3 of us, I will ignore what you have to say beyond a legit question.

If you think my opinion can be bought off taht easily, thenyou truly have no clue who I am and what my morals and beliefs are. If I could be swayed this easily, I'd still be working as a nuclear engineer or as a desk jockey for some company. Money and pretty things cannot buy me off. Facts will change my mind though.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Aaron

Jay:

Sorry, man, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It would appear you have adopted the SCDA position on conflict of interest and disclosure and that's something I just can't support.

Regardless of whether the trip was a PR farce or a legitimate, transparent inquiry, I think the issues presented are best left to Adam and the Planich lawsuit. Certainly whatever questions we have regarding SCDA and the various auction houses it authenticates and consigns to will be answered under that neutral proceeding (and under oath).

Anyway, as far as legit questions, one thing I was wondering is what percentage of game used bats and other equipment that are carried in an average Mastro auction were also consigned by SCDA or its authenticators?

The reason I'm asking (and this was a question I placed to you earlier in the thread) is why Mastro and other auction houses are resistant to the idea of disclosing conflict of interest in an item description?

Wouldn't it remove the appearance of impropriety if they just listed "LOA and Consignment by Bushing" or whoever happened to authenticate it if he also owned the item?

To me it seems like a simple step, so I don't understand their aversion to it.

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Posted By: PASJD

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think the auction houses also should disclose any restoration (even if in the opinion of the auction house it is not material) at least with respect to cards where there does not appear to be a consensus on what is material. I cannot comment on other collectibles where there may be a consensus. And I fully concur with Aaron that if an auctioned item has been authenticated by the consignor himself, that ought to be disclosed clearly. Why isn't it done? I still haven't heard a good explanation.